I sold a Valab NOS DAC I had in preparation for the $320 Chameleon NOS DAC group buy. I loved the Valab, and it delivered on what I wanted it to (musicality and vocals), and I assumed the Chameleon would only better that. However, I read through the NOS DAC bashing thread with Dan Lavry, and now I'm wondering if my love for the Valab is only because I haven't heard any other half decent DACs.

What's yall's opinions on NOS DACs as a whole? Would you advise getting the Chameleon, ever? The only other DAC I've read of that has the traits I desire (warmth, musicality, etc; basically analog sound) is the DAC19MKIII, which is unavailable until later this month and costs about twice as much after I get the filter board (PMD 1000) I need. I asked this same question on Head-Fi, but this forum appears to be a bit more brutally honest with stuff, which is really what I need right now.

I prefer Horned Lizards myself.

Everything I have is both NOS and milspec. Sounds good, man.

which is really what I need right now.

Sorry, I don't have what you need. Also, your Welcome PM suggests giving before receiving around here, just a warning.

My DAC oversamples, but I've no experience of NOS DACs at the same level.

No idea how big a factor it is compared to say, output stages, power supplies or wood trims.

I turned oversampling off in my DAC, and it lost detail, mushing up the music. It didn't sound unpleasant, just in the end leaving oversampling on was the best option. I recall Dan Lavry making a big post on HF rubbishing NOS DACs. That's all I know.

A lot of those guys in the Valab thread seem to like distortion

Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio - View Single Post - Valab NOS DAC - subjective listening and modifications, and confusing analog mods with digital (silver digital cables. ad nauseum). That and many simple NOS DACs roll off the high end, not unlike some of the tube amps that are or were popular supposedly do, such as the Doge and the Bada (IIRC).

I've used a Monica USB for a while. Better a good NOS

DAC than a poorly designed oversampling one. But NOS can be bettered.

I bought one of the on sale Pico's and it takes off some of those rough

edges. And of course 20 other great DACS come up for sale used.

FS: TwistedPearAudio OPUS dac modules and power supply. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

And here's another good one

[For Sale] Cambridge DacMagic - Club Polk

New with good reviews

HIGH RESOLUTION TECHNOLOGIES - MUSICSTREAMER+ - CD/DVD PLAYERS

The last year has seen a lot of these come down to near NOS DAC

prices. And Quality has improved to pretty good levels. Not high end.

But pretty damn good bang for the buck.

Then you've got Steve Nugent posting on CA, claiming the Valab to be comperable to $10k dacs with a simple output cap swop. "World class" and "no brainer" he calls it...but "not as good as my Overdrive."

Oh, did I forget to mention the one little detail. It needs a low jitter source.

But don't they all Steve?

Better a good NOS DAC than a poorly designed oversampling one. But NOS can be bettered.

This. In 30 words or less, even.

I really like my custom made and designed NOS DAC with tube output stage. I did, however heard some really bad NOS DACs that sounded all mushy and edgy. Listen to it, if you like it, buy it

I'm in agreement about a few of the people in the Valab topics; some of them do seem to be a bit unconventional, and I'm pretty damn sure that Bill guy who talks really formally is related to the reseller or developer (reminds me of Beresford posting on his head-fi alt accounts).

I've used a Monica USB for a while. Better a good NOS

DAC than a poorly designed oversampling one. But NOS can be bettered.

I bought one of the on sale Pico's and it takes off some of those rough

edges. And of course 20 other great DACS come up for sale used.

FS: TwistedPearAudio OPUS dac modules and power supply. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

And here's another good one

[For Sale] Cambridge DacMagic - Club Polk

New with good reviews

HIGH RESOLUTION TECHNOLOGIES - MUSICSTREAMER+ - CD/DVD PLAYERS

The last year has seen a lot of these come down to near NOS DAC

prices. And Quality has improved to pretty good levels. Not high end.

But pretty damn good bang for the buck.

I appreciate your linking used ads within my price range for well reviewed DACs. However, my uncertainty as to whether NOS is really as bad as Lavry said stems from reviews like this

The Nearfield: The Devilsound USB DAC And Channel Islands Audio VDC 9.0 Review By Steven Stone

that say the Music Streamer+ (very well reviewed, as you stated) is given equal competition by a Devilsound NOS DAC. And from the reviews comments on both DACs, I'd have gone with the Devilsound since the "tube" sound was what I was looking for in the first place. According to what Lavry said, in theory the Music Streamer+, a very recently released DAC that's been given giant killer status from 6moons, should've stomped on a NOS DAC like the Devilsound, but that didn't happen.

You know what? Screw it, I'll just order the Chameleon. Way I figure, I can sell it for about the same price I got it from the group buy, if it turns out NOS really is bad.

Look a lot of Head Fi posts are pretty whacko so don't read too much [if anything] into it. I tried reading that Valab thread a while back and I just didn't get what people were trying to achieve.

No idea how big a factor it is compared to say, output stages, power supplies or wood trims.

My NOS dac had wood trim and is filled with BG's and Rikens. Must be moar awesome then any other...

It isn't a bad little dac though

I purchased an used Lite DAC-AH from Gene and modded it by replacing the output op-amps w/ a passive output using oil filled caps. I also added some heat sinks, drilled some vent holes, installed thicker rubber feet, and checked the right voltage. Overall I was very satisfied for the little money I had in it. Heck some days I still regret selling it.

I didn't like the few NOS units I've heard.

Smooth-sounding and full-bodied, but it can be a bit too much. Also lacking in details and comparatively sluggish-seeming.

Hmm, that's kind of like me, actually. I have a smooth head, I'm full-bodied and definitely very sluggish. Aargh, I don't like myself.

That's the real problem is many of us only have listened to a few DACs and

that makes for poor A vs. B judgements. I can't think of many places to

go audition DACS, other than Head Fi meets. The other choice is to blindly

drop a wad of cash on one of those big name units. I was frozen in

place for about a year mulling over what DAC to upgrade to. The Pico

on sale was a no brainer.

Buy them all.

Buy them all from Dinny.

I didn't like the few NOS units I've heard.

Smooth-sounding and full-bodied, but it can be a bit too much. Also lacking in details and comparatively sluggish-seeming.

My impressions are about the same, except for the sluggish sounding part. I don't really find them sluggish or slow, but that's just me.

Like buttah?

i've heard a few, and they were always a bit over-smooth, to me.

compared to non over smoothing DACs?

Compared to real life.

ok, just for clarification:

this forum's opinion on anything: nothing.

the individual members have opinions. if you want group think, fuck off.

I changed my mind, I now prefer these to chameleons: