Audio Myths Workshop Video

[Grahame]

Accompanying sound files AES Workshop Video Files

Pay attention to Jim Johnston (one the world's foremost experts on perceptual encoding) between 1:05 and 5:15, and the demonstration by Poppy Crum (a neuroscientist specialising in the auditory system) between 5:30 and 8:00.

[Dreadhead]

Thanks for posting. What I've been saying for years.

Of course it's entirely bullshit according to a lot of people here and elsewhere

[n_maher]

Thanks for posting. What I've been saying for years.

Of course it's entirely bullshit according to a lot of people here and elsewhere

Yay you.

[Dreadhead]

Yay sarcasm

[morphsci]

There is also a difference between saying "This is how we hear" and "This is our expectation for how the average person hears". But in general there is nothing really new here and why a lot of people spend a relatively long time comparing things in their system. And Poppy Crum FTW.

[Dreadhead]

There is also a difference between saying "This is how we hear" and "This is our expectation for how the average person hears". But in general there is nothing really new here and why a lot of people spend a relatively long time comparing things in their system. And Poppy Crum FTW.

Not necessarily new but nice to see that "JJ" says if you know the two are different then you'll hear a difference. Having a long time to compare isn't going to make your comparison any more effective.

That Satan thing Poppy Crum was flat out amazing. It pretty much showed that the power of suggestion is lot stronger than a lot of us (myself included) would like to believe.

[morphsci]

Not necessarily new but nice to see that "JJ" says if you know the two are different then you'll hear a difference. Having a long time to compare isn't going to make your comparison any more effective.

That Satan thing Poppy Crum was flat out amazing. It pretty much showed that the power of suggestion is lot stronger than a lot of us (myself included) would like to believe.

See that depends on what the goal of the comparison is. My goal for example is not to find the objectively best components in my system but to find the combination of components that allow me to enjoy the music the most. That means to me a detailed but not fatiguing sound that is balanced across the frequency spectrum and gets the tonalisty of the mids right. I find, like JJ said, that if I concentrate on listening for specific things i do not hear the music but what I am listening for. Therefore, for me, I need a lot of listening over a long period of time before I feel i can adequately judge how well the component is working in the system. My point is that everyone may not have the same goals for their system nor the same criteria for a satisfying experience. Although interesting, that was a fairly caricatured presentation of the underlying data interpretation. That's why I gave up on doing "reviews" I do not believe i can judge a component for anyone else except myself.

Edited February 8, 2010 by morphsci

[Grahame]

... And Poppy Crum FTW.

Indeed Cogito - Cogito Conversation: Poppy Crum, Neuroscientist

[Smeggy]

I'd hit it!!

[deepak]

Playing the music backwards nonsense has been around since the beginning of rock music.

Stairway to Heaven - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (scroll to the bottom)

[Grahame]

Indeed.

I like the peppermint defense myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNp3yIsFyiI

Americans? Normal People

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvvLL_oAvus

Back on topic-ish

It looks like said presentation, and participants invoked something of a flame war over at Stereophile - check out the comments

Stereophile: Breakthrough Approach to Audio Measurement

I didn't know Dinny posted over there?

Posted Mon Oct12, 2009, 12:07 AM

[nikongod]

Thanks for posting that video, I watched it end to end last night and its quite thought provoking.

[Dreadhead]

HC, by comparison, is almost a model of civilized discourse

You can say that again.

[atothex]

Wow, I just learned a new term put-down term: "wallplugger."

Edit: also lol at 36% reduction in timing errors with audiophile power cord.

[Knuckledragger]

Re: Queen backwards.

[aerius]

That Satan thing Poppy Crum was flat out amazing. It pretty much showed that the power of suggestion is lot stronger than a lot of us (myself included) would like to believe.

There's actually a reason for that one, our human brains do not like random crap and if presented with such in say, a random noise pattern on a screen or Led Zeppelin played backwards, our brains will want to make a pattern out of it. This is why we're so suggestible in these situations, if I point to a random pattern of scribbles and say to you "this is a martian picking his ass", you will see it, and that's how the fake lyrics work when you play "Stairway" in reverse. It's random and sounds completely wrong, your brain doesn't like it and wants it to make sense, and when the fake lyrics go up it goes "aha!" since it thinks there's now a pattern it understands.

Where the power of suggestion doesn't work nearly as well is when there's already a pattern which the brain understands. If I have picture of a horse I'm gonna have a hell of a time convincing you it's a giraffe unless you're on drugs or you don't know what a giraffe is. Similarly, I doubt I'd be able to make you confuse a french horn for a trumpet, or in the speaker world, a Lowther for a Quad ESL-57, or in headphoes, an AKG K701 and Grado RS-1.

[Grahame]

Indeed.

As you can see from this Vase

Or is it a pair of faces?

Likewise for the Old Crone

Or the elegant you lady looking away

[LarsMarkelson]

Do you see the dancer turning clockwise or anti-clockwise?

If clockwise, then you use more of the right side of the brain and if anti-clockwise you use more of the left side.

Most of us would see the dancer turning anti-clockwise though you can try to focus and change the direction; see if you can do it.

The Right Brain vs Left Brain test | Perth Now

[Torpedo]

Funnily enough I can see that figure spinning on any direction I want to see it, even like facing me and making swaps right to left and vice versa.

[Dusty Chalk]

I'm too mesmerized by the fact that she's nude to care whether or not she's spinning clockwise or counterclockwise. As far as I am concerned, she's spinning cock-wise.

[Torpedo]

Oh well if I focus on her boobs then I can't decide the spinning direction I guess they go wild on their own.

[atothex]

I only see clockwise no matter what. That's funny; I'd always imagined myself as a left brain person. Like an amusing little palm-reading type exercise I guess...

[grawk]

I also can only manage to see clockwise.

[n_maher]

I also can only manage to see clockwise.

I was the same way for a while (but anti-clockwise) but for the first time this morning I just unfocused my eyes a bit and viola, I can see both now. My mind still defaults to anti-clockwise though.

You know what's really effed, if I try hard enough I can get her top to spin one way and her bottom the other. That hurts my head.

Edited February 10, 2010 by n_maher

[Salt Peanuts]

I can see her turning either way, the default appears to be clockwise. It's easier for me to go from clockwise to counterclockwise than other way around, though.