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Vicki...The only Queen at CanJam?

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Steve,

I'm glad that you feel comfortable enough with all of us to post this message. More than anything I'm just happy that you feel like being you around us and couldn't care less about your preference for a date.

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What do you do when there are four gay guys at the bar and only one available barstool?

Turn the stool over of course!

Good one, oh and nice post

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Oh noes! I'm not going to catch the gay from you, am I? :)

Seriously, couldn't care less one way or the other. So long as people are happy, loving and consensual, then more power to them. But I am truly glad that you feel happy and comfortable enough to come out. In the modern world, it still baffles me as to why choice of sexual partner is still considered a valid reason to discriminate against people. It is so bloody arbitrary.

[Edit] Oh, my only question to gay men is usually this...... how can you not love the boobies?!?

But you already covered that well :)

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Seems like someone in San Francisco ought to post a response quickly, so thank you for feeling able to write that here, Steve. I too am amazed at how our little community has grown and diversified. It was great fun meeting you this weekend and I hope to see your gay ass again soon. Well, not literally, but you know what I mean. :D

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Wow, all I can say is that I am personally honored that you feel that comfortable with us to come out, especially on a public forum. I applaud your courage and I know from personal experience it is not an easy thing to be able to come out. I don't mean to stereotype, but considering that I am literally a choir boy and have been a choir boy and musical theatre guy for many years now, I've made many friends that were gay and always appreciated it when they felt comfortable enough with me to come out, thank you. I was very happy to have hung out with you, and my wife and I really appreciated you covering breakfast (which I am sure beats a $25 hotel omelette any day).

I am a Judy Garland and Billie Holiday fan myself. Though regarding stereotypes one thing I learned is that it is good practice never to assume one's sexuality unless they specifically tell you or you have a comfortable relationship with that person where you know where they are at, though in the end sexual orientation should be considered as natural and acceptable as one's ethnic orgin and/or religion. I will also add that Illinois is one of the few states that does qualify sexual orientation as something that you cannot be fired for or denied employment, and now I understand some of your negative feelings towards Texas and why you seem to associate yourself still as an Alaskan.

I just can't applaude you enough for your courage man. Being a choir teacher and involved with musical theatre I always fear about my students who are gay. I cannot fathom what they must go through having to hide or not feel comfortable being who they are in public. America still has a long way to go in terms of being an open and affirming society. Your post above also has solidified my wife and I's choice for a church, as we have been researching and going to many different churches to find one that is aligned with our views, and we found a beautiful UCC Church in our area that is open and affirming, which is very important to my wife and I.

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I was expecting a new Tyll picture when I opened this thread. :D

Hats off for having the courage to post your story, this kind of honesty is one of the great aspects of HC. And who cares if you're gay or straight, as long as we don't start seeing more George Michael and Boy George in the "What are you listening right now?" thread. :P

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I agree with Chris, Steve. I feel very honored. Its the kind of naive things that I hear from my students that surprise and offend me referring to homosexuality that I find very sad as well, I'm certain that took a lot of courage. I sincerely hope you enjoy your unicorns and rainbow powered buffalo-II whilst tearing up to George Micheal when it arrives. :)

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Steve, I am very proud of you having the courage to come out!!! I am glad to know the real you a little better as you are a great person and someone I would love to become better friends with in the future.

I guess I might as well take this chance to share something about myself (which some of you already know). No, I am not really a man. :) I am bisexual. For a long time, I thought I was strictly gay. I dated women exclusively for a large part of my adult life but happen to fall in love with a man. I don't plan on dating any women in the future seeing as I am pretty much married (we are not legally married but my partner and I act as a married couple) to another person, a man. I am still mostly attracted to women but I am committed to my relationship. It was quite difficult for me to come out to friends and family in the beginning and just as much difficult to tell my gay friends that I was marrying a man. So I understand how difficult this is for you Steve (although, I think society is *much* more forgiving of lesbians possibly because women tend to be less homophobic...).

Steve: I didn't mean to try to steal your thunder (or your thunderpants), just thought this would be an appropriate place to share this. I hope you are not mad at me.

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I didn't have a chance to introduce myself, there were so many people to meet. But I had hoped to meet you because I had heard great things about you from others... Hearing about Alaska, though, suddenly triggers a memory - was I standing RIGHT NEXT TO YOU Saturday night outside the hotel aroudnd 1130pm, after drinking beer and smoking reks' pipe (no pun intended :rolleyes:)? I said I was freezing, and ran inside, and walked off - realizing the late hour, that my dogs were probably going to do bad things if I didn't get home NOW. A fellow I didn't know (I pretty much didn't know anyone until that night) said he wasn't cold, he was from Alaska ... I think I smiled and left without introducing myself ... If so, DAMN, sorry! You were someone I really wanted to meet, *sigh*!

Well, I'm a nobody here, or maybe one step up from a nobody after my first CJ, but ...

Hey, sexual orientation is not anything more or less than anything else that makes up who you are, in my book; it's just a neutral fact, it is what it is. I lived in Boy's Town, the main gay area of Chicago for many years, and now live in a suburb known for being accepting of and wanting to integrate people of all sorts (race, orientation, etc). My wife and I, like recstar, purposely chose a church (Catholic, believe it or not) that is openly accepting of homosexuals. I have a Catholic patient who is gay, but not accepting of his own homosexuality. He went to our church and was shocked and appalled that our church is so openly accepting - he left our church in anger for this reason! I've tried to convince him that the official church stance is wrong on this matter, and there are entire parishes that feel this way, and he can be accepted in his life style and still be Catholic; you don't HAVE to agree with everything in a large institution, but rather work to make change, but he can't accept this. Well, that's a bigger topic than can be dealt with here. But anyways, it's cool with me, and based on my short experience here, it seems that one is judged on knowledge, helpfulness, and lack of idiocy ... pretty cool and strong post, in my opinion ... thanks for comin' out!

Oh, and as a single guy living in Boy's Town for so many years, I was mistaken as gay many times. I was flattered more than anything, because 'those' guys generally are good looking, cultured and sophisticated ... or is that just a stereotype ... I think not ... Fwiw, I kinda thought 'choir boy' recstar might have been gay - and I mean that in only the best way - but then he announced his 'wife' was pregnant! ;) I still barely know most of the people that I met and really liked this weekend - any one of them might be gay. Doesn't matter.

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Go Steve! I'm sure it took a lot to come out on here, and makes me proud to be a part of a community like this that lets everyone truly be themselves. You're right about the stereotypes, I never would've guessed you were gay even after meeting you at CanJam. However, I don't think I really want to ask you about your thunderpants now, nothing personal. :P

Damnit, I was hoping to be able to make a snarky Beelee comment, but I can't.

Huzzah on coming out.

I dunno... has the pretty princess "corresponded" with Steve before? :D

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How could Steve possibly be mad at you!? Thanks for sharing and being honest and willing to jump into the fray. I always wondered how your "partner" turned into "husband" so quickly without any wedding fanfare. And seeing as we are being honest, I thought at first he might be a she and you were stuck with how to deal with that issue in an online forum with a bunch of people you mostly didn't know. I guess I was mostly wrong and a little right at the same time. But as I got to know you better, I decided that he really was a he and just put it to one side because I didn't think you would keep up that premise if it weren't true. Congrats on finding someone you love.

And thanks again for hunting me down with Gene on Saturday. You are a true friend and a hell of a partier, gay, straight or both. :)

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Steve, I made a good friend when I met you this weekend. Not a good gay friend or a good straight friend or a good white friend or whatever. A good friend. That's my take on the matter.

Mike

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How could Steve possibly be mad at you!? Thanks for sharing and being honest and willing to jump into the fray. I always wondered how your "partner" turned into "husband" so quickly without any wedding fanfare. And seeing as we are being honest, I thought at first he might be a she and you were stuck with how to deal with that issue in an online forum with a bunch of people you mostly didn't know. I guess I was mostly wrong and a little right at the same time. But as I got to know you better, I decided that he really was a he and just put it to one side because I didn't think you would keep up that premise if it weren't true. Congrats on finding someone you love.

There really needs to be a better word besides "partner," it just sounds ridiculous. I just gave up and decided to use husband, much less confusing.

And thanks again for hunting me down with Gene on Saturday. You are a true friend and a hell of a partier, gay, straight or both. :)

Anytime.

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Kudos to both of you. I always knew there was something in the Texas water... :D

In all seriousness, being open about these things is always the best way to go and I'm humbled that you feel good enough here to share it with us. Also my thanks to both of you for offering up a whole new avenue of jokes. :) Extra bear hugs from Boston.

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Did anyone else get a great big bear hug from spritzer? He just about crushed me ...

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Did anyone else get a great big bear hug from spritzer? He just about crushed me ...

I have not been picked up in a long time -- either literally or figuratively -- but Spritzer picked me up and carried me into an elevator and Duggeh kissed me on the cheek twice (second time I asked for it) all in one weekend. And John, you are no longer a nobody here at all. You were a good guy on HC before CJ and now you are one of the crew. Sign up for an out of town meet and join the Travel Team. It is quite rewarding.

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Wow, strong words, coming from you, Al! Thanks, I'm touched!

I've already planted the seeds and mentioned to my wife about what a great way it would be to travel ...

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Steve, I have to admit, I always kind of wondered as your joking comments in threads leaned in a direction that lead me to believe you might be trying to make some kind of statement. Then again, I probably just read too much into people's words. Either that or we have some real crazies on this site. ;)

I have to imagine that in this day and age everyone knows someone that is gay and it really does not make any difference to us one way or the other.

In closing, I thought you were a weirdo that smelled like fish and wood chips before you told us and I still feel the same way. :D

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I am now even more disheartened that I didn't get up to meet you all. Such a community spirit. Kudos Mr Wood ( and here's the naivette in me thinking the nickname had to do with your carpentry skills :P ) and Shellylh , it is never easy revealing your innermost secrets to friends. I have my shared many wonderful memories with my gay/bisexual/confused friends and feel all the more enriched for their friendship..dB

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I always wondered how your "partner" turned into "husband" so quickly without any wedding fanfare.
Yeah, me too. I have to admit that when you (Shelly) were so careful to use the word 'partner' all the time, I allowed for the possibility of you being gay. I've had others say the same thing of me -- a girl thought I was gay because (a) I never showed any interest in her, (B) I showed more interest in her boyfriend, © I always showed up alone, and (d) my choice of words. I don't remember using 'partner' all the time, I'm not sure what word or words I did use, but I also (e) didn't care what she thought, and that's probably what she sensed the most, she just misinterpreted it.

Yeah, I don't know what a good word is, though I can see some people having issue with husband if he isn't, same as if you were straight. I've heard, 'boyfriend', but I can't help but be brought to mind of a movie (I forget which, but it was something like that Jack Nicholson/Helen Hunt one, with the cross-generational relationship. At one point, the older main character says to a secondary older character, something about a boyfriend. She says, "at our age, we don't have boyfriends or girlfriends, we have lovers". So...'lover', maybe? I don't know what kind of person you are, it may not be 'you', but it certainly works, and is sex-neutral...er...that is, it's gender-neutral, although probably a bit too TMI in terms of sexual activity.

I think more straight people should use 'partner', that would eventually leave to no problem. Then there's the whole "PASLQ" (pronounced poss-el-cue) idea ('person of the appropriate sex sharing same living quarters')...but the problem stems from the fact that if you are evasive at all about the gender of your partner, it sounds like you're being evasive. There's no getting around that. So I don't have a solution. And now I'm babbling.

Edited by Dusty Chalk

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... and I hope to see your gay ass again soon. Well, not literally, but you know what I mean. :D

Fuck that, I'm moonin' your ass next meet! :D

Wow, all I can say is that I am personally honored that you feel that comfortable with us to come out, especially on a public forum. I applaud your courage and I know from personal experience it is not an easy thing to be able to come out. I don't mean to stereotype, but considering that I am literally a choir boy and have been a choir boy and musical theatre guy for many years now, I've made many friends that were gay and always appreciated it when they felt comfortable enough with me to come out, thank you. I was very happy to have hung out with you, and my wife and I really appreciated you covering breakfast (which I am sure beats a $25 hotel omelette any day).

I am a Judy Garland and Billie Holiday fan myself. Though regarding stereotypes one thing I learned is that it is good practice never to assume one's sexuality unless they specifically tell you or you have a comfortable relationship with that person where you know where they are at, though in the end sexual orientation should be considered as natural and acceptable as one's ethnic orgin and/or religion. I will also add that Illinois is one of the few states that does qualify sexual orientation as something that you cannot be fired for or denied employment, and now I understand some of your negative feelings towards Texas and why you seem to associate yourself still as an Alaskan.

I just can't applaude you enough for your courage man. Being a choir teacher and involved with musical theatre I always fear about my students who are gay. I cannot fathom what they must go through having to hide or not feel comfortable being who they are in public. America still has a long way to go in terms of being an open and affirming society. Your post above also has solidified my wife and I's choice for a church, as we have been researching and going to many different churches to find one that is aligned with our views, and we found a beautiful UCC Church in our area that is open and affirming, which is very important to my wife and I.

Thanks Ryan, that really does mean a lot to me. I so enjoyed getting to know you and your lovely wife. I had fun with you every time we were in a group venue, but thoroughly enjoyed our breakfast, where I could get to know you and your wife in a smaller setting.

Damnit, I was hoping to be able to make a snarky Beelee comment, but I can't.

Huzzah on coming out.

I was sure you had already figured it out Dusty. There were a few times you just seemed to see through me.

I agree with Chris, Steve. I feel very honored. Its the kind of naive things that I hear from my students that surprise and offend me referring to homosexuality that I find very sad as well, I'm certain that took a lot of courage. I sincerely hope you enjoy your unicorns and rainbow powered buffalo-II whilst tearing up to George Micheal when it arrives. :)

Just for you I'm going to be sure that Careless Whisper is the first thing played through the new DAC! Oh, and judging by the way you were eating that hot dog Sunday afternoon, I was sure you'd be tagging on to this thread. :P

Seriously though, you're a really cool guy and I had a blast hanging out!

Steve, I am very proud of you having the courage to come out!!! I am glad to know the real you a little better as you are a great person and someone I would love to become better friends with in the future.

I guess I might as well take this chance to share something about myself (which some of you already know). No, I am not really a man. :) I am bisexual. For a long time, I thought I was strictly gay. I dated women exclusively for a large part of my adult life but happen to fall in love with a man. I don't plan on dating any women in the future seeing as I am pretty much married (we are not legally married but my partner and I act as a married couple) to another person, a man. I am still mostly attracted to women but I am committed to my relationship. It was quite difficult for me to come out to friends and family in the beginning and just as much difficult to tell my gay friends that I was marrying a man. So I understand how difficult this is for you Steve (although, I think society is *much* more forgiving of lesbians possibly because women tend to be less homophobic...).

Steve: I didn't mean to try to steal your thunder (or your thunderpants), just thought this would be an appropriate place to share this. I hope you are not mad at me.

Mad? Get real girlfriend! :D I love you way too much to ever get mad at you. And I think that's just awesome. I sometimes wished that I could settle down with a woman, because the only real regret for me is not having the chance to be a Father. It just wouldn't work for me though, as I don't love the boobies. :P

I didn't have a chance to introduce myself, there were so many people to meet. But I had hoped to meet you because I had heard great things about you from others... Hearing about Alaska, though, suddenly triggers a memory - was I standing RIGHT NEXT TO YOU Saturday night outside the hotel aroudnd 1130pm, after drinking beer and smoking reks' pipe (no pun intended :rolleyes:)? I said I was freezing, and ran inside, and walked off - realizing the late hour, that my dogs were probably going to do bad things if I didn't get home NOW. A fellow I didn't know (I pretty much didn't know anyone until that night) said he wasn't cold, he was from Alaska ... I think I smiled and left without introducing myself ... If so, DAMN, sorry! You were someone I really wanted to meet, *sigh*!

Well, I'm a nobody here, or maybe one step up from a nobody after my first CJ, but ...

Hey, sexual orientation is not anything more or less than anything else that makes up who you are, in my book; it's just a neutral fact, it is what it is. I lived in Boy's Town, the main gay area of Chicago for many years, and now live in a suburb known for being accepting of and wanting to integrate people of all sorts (race, orientation, etc). My wife and I, like recstar, purposely chose a church (Catholic, believe it or not) that is openly accepting of homosexuals. I have a Catholic patient who is gay, but not accepting of his own homosexuality. He went to our church and was shocked and appalled that our church is so openly accepting - he left our church in anger for this reason! I've tried to convince him that the official church stance is wrong on this matter, and there are entire parishes that feel this way, and he can be accepted in his life style and still be Catholic; you don't HAVE to agree with everything in a large institution, but rather work to make change, but he can't accept this. Well, that's a bigger topic than can be dealt with here. But anyways, it's cool with me, and based on my short experience here, it seems that one is judged on knowledge, helpfulness, and lack of idiocy ... pretty cool and strong post, in my opinion ... thanks for comin' out!

Oh, and as a single guy living in Boy's Town for so many years, I was mistaken as gay many times. I was flattered more than anything, because 'those' guys generally are good looking, cultured and sophisticated ... or is that just a stereotype ... I think not ... Fwiw, I kinda thought 'choir boy' recstar might have been gay - and I mean that in only the best way - but then he announced his 'wife' was pregnant! ;) I still barely know most of the people that I met and really liked this weekend - any one of them might be gay. Doesn't matter.

You are hardly a nobody, and yes that was me. You seemed like a cool guy too, so we'll have to make time to talk at the next gathering. I plan to make them much more of a regular thing, especially if I can moon Al.

Steve, I made a good friend when I met you this weekend. Not a good gay friend or a good straight friend or a good white friend or whatever. A good friend. That's my take on the matter.

Mike

You're a very cool guy Mike, and I hope we can hang together again at a future meet. You're a class act!

Did anyone else get a great big bear hug from spritzer? He just about crushed me ...

I did! As you all know, I'm not a small guy. However I think I must have looked like some kind of parasitic twin coming out of Biggie's side. He is truly a Viking warrior on the outside, but a giant Teddy Bear on the inside. I love that guy!

Steve, I have to admit, I always kind of wondered as your joking comments in threads leaned in a direction that lead me to believe you might be trying to make some kind of statement. Then again, I probably just read too much into people's words. Either that or we have some real crazies on this site. ;)

I have to imagine that in this day and age everyone knows someone that is gay and it really does not make any difference to us one way or the other.

In closing, I thought you were a weirdo that smelled like fish and wood chips before you told us and I still feel the same way. :D

Yep, I've given lots of hints over the years. I'm actually quite surprised that anyone is surprised. Or maybe they're all just being kind. :)

I am indeed a weirdo, but the fish smell is really fish, not the other. ;)

Oh, I hate the words 'Partner' and 'Lover', I just say boyfriend, as it conveys love to me, but doesn't sound like a business associate or a paid hooker.

I really appreciate the kind words from all of you. It means a hell of a lot to me, though I never expected less from this group.

Edited by swt61

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I'm essentially echoing Mike's sentiments here, but you are an all-around great guy Steve and absolutely a friend of mine. I admire your courage and kander.

I liked Ryan's point on assumptions; I will entirely admit that I always assume people to be straight and of course this can (and has been) incorrect. It just goes to show, never assume anything.

Wish you the best Steve, can't wait to hang out again friend.

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