catscratch Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 I did notice the honk with the SZ2 007, and I compared it side by side with the 71xxx 007. It's what killed the SZ2 for me, which otherwise was a capable headphone. If that honk is also present in the 009, then I'm pretty sure I'd prefer the 71xxx 007 too. On the other hand, I also feel that 007 is too polite and laid-back for its own good. So far I'm compensating for that with a very punchy source, but even with a BH the 007 is still not involving enough when paired with a lot of otherwise great sources. So I can kinda see both sides of the argument. Ideally, I'd want a phone that's more forward than the 007, but one that retains the warm mids and general sense of fluidity. Maybe the SR-Omega would be perfect, but given the current prices and the reliability issues, I'll hold off and stick with what I've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 So Biggie, the 009s have an "upper midrange shout" or "honk," the "bass is messed up," and the "top end is rather artificial"? That's an awful lot of problems for one TOTL flagship headphone to suffer. Fortunately, I don't hear them. Now this does depend on volume level but the faults are always there, higher voltage swing just shines a spotlight on the issues. Same with the SR-Omega, they are fine at lower levels but fall apart when pushed hard. The top end is artificial as it focuses on the plankton too much. Neither the SR-Omega nor the SR-007 could be accused of being low in detail and the 009 just sounds forced. The honk is similar to the one in the SR-404. It's not the age old etch but a clear resonance or a side band of one. It just gets worse and worse the harder you push them over whisper quiet levels. Now this bothers some people more than others and I'm firmly in the first camp.... As for the bass, there is a clear shelf in the bass so it doesn't extend as fully as it should. On the scale of issues this pales to the HE90 though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n3rdling Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 HE90 >> 009 > Omega > 007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvdunhill Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 HE90 >> 009 > Omega > 007 I think your greater thans shold be less thans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n3rdling Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 The old me probably would have agreed based on early meet impressions. Those are my 4 favorite headphones so it's not like I think any of them suck or anything. The 007 is the best for poor recordings and probably rock/hip hop/pop. Imaging is super precise and they're super non fatiguing. If I could only have 1 headphone this would rank higher just because a lot of the time I like to just listen to random shit on youtube and the quality can be pretty bad. These aren't as neutral as the HE90/009 though, and that's really evident when you try to listen to any recording where trumpet is present...there's no bite. Ends up ruining some jazz and horn concertos completely. Omega is larger than life with beautiful mids and quite a bit of midbass punch. Imaging is a little diffuse, sub bass doesn't have much weight, and they are the brightest of the bunch. They can be quite goosebump inducing, but can fatigue easily. 009 is kinda a combo of the above two: signature similar to the Omega overall, but with the added imaging precision and sub bass presence of the 007. Downside is they can be a little sterile sounding at times. HE90 is the one headphone I'd say is clear cut better than those three. Similar to the 009 in neutrality, but never sterile or fatiguing. I think they use a different film for the diaphragm than Stax because the treble is more pleasant sounding. They can be a bit on the diffuse side, but the soundstage is super wide, helping to get rid of some 'headphone' sound. I used to think the HE90 was pretty shit because I only heard it from the A-10 and some SinglePower amps, then I heard it properly and ended up using it 90%+ of the time I use headphones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 What is your proper HE90 amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n3rdling Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 HEV90/Aristaeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wink Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 Perfection for some..... Unobtanium for others.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted August 24, 2013 Report Share Posted August 24, 2013 The HE90 uses tensilized Hostaphan C aka Mylar C same as the Stax sets. The only real difference is the thickness of the stators and their damping abilities. The Senn stators are easily 3-4 times thicker than the Stax ones and that will change the sound a lot. Not sure why they did that as most ES designers frown on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwmclean Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 Found myself reaching out for the 007s today... just a lovely balanced phone, the elevated detail with the 009s started to wear thin, especially at higher listening levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wink Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 Listen quieter....... tee hee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 All hail the balance!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wink Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 But.... The BHSE is balanced....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 Hmmm but does that make it part of the balance.... I wish we had a thought leader to guide us on these matters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 You mean open loop buf634 driving drv134? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 Only if it gives us the required magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wink Posted August 26, 2013 Report Share Posted August 26, 2013 If John wants to see which HP is better balanced, he should try listening to them whilst standing on one leg. Whichever one makes him fall over is either the one that goes out the door because the sound is unbalanced, or the one that he keeps because he's floored by it's performance. tread carefully, John..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwmclean Posted August 26, 2013 Report Share Posted August 26, 2013 (edited) ... Well the 009s certainly have an effect on my bank balance. Having real difficulties, the 009 hasn't won me over. It does certain things better for the sacrifice of others, the 007 on the other hand seems more even keeled across a wider genre. Hands down the 009s is my choice for classical, I'll give it that... Edited August 26, 2013 by johnwmclean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complin Posted August 26, 2013 Report Share Posted August 26, 2013 (edited) Personally i've found the 009 much more sensative to the quality of the source than the amplifier. The Omega and 007 needs oodles of power as we all know to really come to life. Many of the hyper detailed DAC's tend to exagerate the the 9's top end which can make them sound a bit relentless over an hour or so. I still love my 007 Mk1's but the 9's just dig up even more nuances from within the timbre of the intruments, which is particularly noticable when listening to high rez. The texture in the bass is simply amazing. ... Well the 009s certainly have an effect on my bank balance. Having real difficulties, the 009 hasn't won me over. It does certain things better for the sacrifice of others, the 007 on the other hand seems more even keeled across a wider genre. Hands down the 009s is my choice for classical, I'll give it that... Edited August 26, 2013 by complin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwmclean Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Good points complin, had me second guessing my DAC hehe. A week before the 009s arrived I rolled the JJs for some xf3 Mullards and gave them a quick listen with the 007s. Tonight I changed back to the JJs, the presentation has definitely relaxed with 009s by a wide margin. The 009s came home in the end, the 007s are already sold... (wink) Happy Days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeP Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Congrats on making a most difficult decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggil Posted August 28, 2013 Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 John, I knew you would see the errors of your ways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Just got the KingSound and it works just fine off Stax Pro bias. The "manual" (small card thing) even says that the headphone should be used with "professional" amps aka Stax Pro bias. Their pathetic excuse for amps are optional extras. Not sure where that 450V BS came from as the SS amp clearly states in its manual (again a small card) that the bias is 580V. As for the sound... well... they are not good after the first hour. Not good as in the OEM models Stax made in the 70's have more redeeming qualities. The backwave is clearly restricted so everything sounds shut in, there is not HF sparkle and there is no midrange presence. The sound is just... there, but not in a good manner. Why anybody would state that the bass on these is acceptable let alone useable just goes to show that meet impressions are useless. It is severely lacking as it is so muted and lacking in heft. Thump becomes thhhhhfffffttttt.... That said the packaging is nice and the headphones are worlds apart from something like the Jade in terms of engineering. I'm worried about the lack of proper dust covers on the drivers but I'll just add some when I open them up tomorrow. I also have mods planned for the SS amp to make it at least semi stable. Remove all that bass boost crap and put in a volume pot that isn't the cheapest thing on the bloody planet. Install silver mica output caps, better anode resistors and perhaps try to regulate the PSU. Then heatsinks for the main offenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinsettawong Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) I listened to KS once and I didn't like its bass either. I bet if you take out all the damping material and give it a lot more open area at the back, the sound will be very different in a pleasant way. Edited August 30, 2013 by chinsettawong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wink Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Why try making a silk purse out of a sow's ear? Yeah, this team overkill, where no commercial product is safe from performance mods.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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