RHMMMM Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 What's up guys and gals. Long time occasional lurker here and in other forums as well. Blessingx bought my Electrocompaniet ECD-1 and also reminded me that this forum exists. There isn't really an introduction section and I realize the community here is on the smaller side, but you guys seem pretty reasonable, so I may start posting more and join in the fun. Anyhow, I have been researching the hell out of DACs lately, particularly DSD ones. I bought the TEAC (compact, balanced) for a headphone setup at my desk, but have been enjoying DSD so much, I decided to sell both my DACs and upgrade to a Meitner MA-1 for my main system. If DSD interests you, there are several compact units with balanced outs and USB input. The Mytek DSD192 has already been mentioned, as has the Resonnessence Invicta (has SD also), also the new X-Sabre DAC from Matrix. Ayre is going to release a new QB9 with DSD capability soon (March I am told) and it will be based off the Sabre chip. As well, you should look into the exaSound e20 mkII just announced this week, which is compact and has headphone outputs as well as balanced and USB in, DSD4x(!) and DXD support for around $2500. Also check out the Auralic Vega, looks really cool. All of these somewhat fit your criteria, though price ranges are different. I have been particularly interested in the exaSound because it seems solid for the price. Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about SD playback. The unit selection is very limited which has that specific feature. My conclusion and wisdom from my own research: there will be a lot of really cool digital stuff coming out this year supporting DSD. You may be wise to sit back a little more and watch what happens before making a move... [Don't ban me for this: if anyone interested in the TEAC, I have it for sale over at HF and probably will put it on audiogon or something soon to get a wider audience if it doesn't sell soon. If you're interested, PM me] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emelius Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 My brother just bought a Meitner & loves it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 What is there for DSD source material, just Blue Coast Recordings? I'm not sure I understand this DSD come back given how high res PCM has finally somewhat caught on in an already miniscule market segment. It's like Blu-ray vs HDDVD all over again except with less than 1% of the population as the target. I watched an hour long RMAF seminar on Youtube on how DSD is better than PCM. I don't even know why :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHMMMM Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 What is there for DSD source material, just Blue Coast Recordings? I'm not sure I understand this DSD come back given how high res PCM has finally somewhat caught on in an already miniscule market segment. It's like Blu-ray vs HDDVD all over again except with less than 1% of the population as the target. I watched an hour long RMAF seminar on Youtube on how DSD is better than PCM. I don't even know why :/ You can rip SACDs with a firmware-hacked PS3, so the DSD source material catalog is essentially (and potentially) the whole SACD catalog plus the emerging download market. I have said PS3 and have ripped my SACD collection, which I am now able to enjoy again after years without a compatible player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHMMMM Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Here is a good link regarding compatible equipment, software players and online sources for legal purchasing and download of DSD. It is expanding and being updated more and more since the end of 2011.http://www.audiostream.com/content/dsd-ready-dacs-short-list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 You can rip SACDs with a firmware-hacked PS3, so the DSD source material catalog is essentially (and potentially) the whole SACD catalog plus the emerging download market. I have said PS3 and have ripped my SACD collection, which I am now able to enjoy again after years without a compatible player. That makes sense, if you have the means to do it. It's an arduous process and I'm guessing most audiophiles are re-buying into DSD with the promise of DSD downloads catching on. Even in that seminar there was an argument of 64fs vs 128fs vs 256fs. It's really a headache when SACD DSD is 64fs and what current downloads are being offered as. And people are already claiming the superiority of the other two. So how many times do they want you to rebuy these downloads whenever a higher DSD multiplier rate comes out? Anyway just my rambling opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHMMMM Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 That makes sense, if you have the means to do it. It's an arduous process and I'm guessing most audiophiles are re-buying into DSD with the promise of DSD downloads catching on. Even in that seminar there was an argument of 64fs vs 128fs vs 256fs. It's really a headache when SACD DSD is 64fs and what current downloads are being offered as. And people are already claiming the superiority of the other two. So how many times do they want you to rebuy these downloads whenever a higher DSD multiplier rate comes out? Anyway just my rambling opinion Isn't that all part of the fun of digital? If there wasn't always a better resolution around the corner, we'd have nothing to look forward to and we'd have to settle on enjoying the music. And who wants that?? [tongue-in-cheek]. I'm still holding out for some kind of quantum slipstream DAC that can reproduce infinite resolution and plugs directly into my brain. Hopefully when I'm 90 and deaf, they'll have that . I'll also mention that since many recent generation DAC chips are DSD capable, it may be possible to upgrade the firmware on a DAC that supports such things, to enable DSD playback. For example, PS Audio's Paul McGowan has already mentioned in "Paul's Tracks" on the psaudio.com site that he's got a guy working on an update to the PWD to enable this. Time will tell is the whole DSD thing is a fad or not, but personally I feel more secure having more capabilities (audio playback, in this case) than not when I dump a bunch of money into something. This was a factor in my decision criteria to go with the Meitner instead of an AMR DP-777, which sounds super sweet but is PCM only (at least right now)! So if someone is looking for a new DAC and soliciting recommendations, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out the goings-on with DSD at this point in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessingx Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) Not sure if we all saw the same video (below), but without a doubt the most disheartening comments were around the line of DSD is good, but Double DSD, man, that sounds like vinyl/studio/real/whatever... That said as long as the hardware is compatible it's more a 24/96 v. 24/192 than BR v. HDDVD comparison (at least in playback competition), no? And of course the number of DSD studio recordings (before PCM mixdown to Redbook, etc.) has to be huge compared to the number of SACDs ever released or current DSD downloads. Again, I'm excited about DSD, but the difference between DACs at the before mentioned DAC-off was greater in any format than between formats. Thus buying that good old ECD-1. Edited March 1, 2013 by blessingx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 What is there for DSD source material, just Blue Coast Recordings? ...and 2L and Wheatus. The problem is, DSD is good for recording and playback, but there's hardly anything else -- effects...mixing...Sony has been keeping such a tight reign on licensing that no-one wants to develop anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torpedo Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Another DAC which I've been recently recommended, not DSD capable but perhaps could be in the future with a firmware upgrade, which might interest Justin is the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 I haven't listened to it though, but since I'm working a loan deal to try the Mytek, eventually might get this one too. Anyone has direct experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3cT Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 I think it may finally be time to do away with CDs for the meet rig. Plus, shipping the CD player back and forth to meets is costly and takes up expensive table space, and they eventually break. Time to go DAC-only. At RMAF, i did have a few people come up to me wanting to play their files off SD cards or USB flash drives, and I was not equipped to do this with my CD player...another DAC advantage as I know some of them support this. Something small and lightweight would also be a plus as it makes travel/shipping easier. any recommendations? Do you really need a balanced out? I thought the Fostex HP-A8 fits all your requirements (lightweight, DSD capable, SD card playback support) except that it has no balanced out. For such a small unit the thing sounds mighty impressive though: I had compared it with the good old stalwart Lavry DA11 and the Fostex is significantly better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlSeibert Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 How about the Jeff Rowland? Dare I ask how much that costs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebby Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Dare I ask how much that costs? According to Stereophile, $9,800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swt61 Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 A bargain at half the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlSeibert Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 According to Stereophile, $9,800. Zowwee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikongod Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 What about the GRACE M902 or M903? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recstar24 Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 What about the GRACE M902 or M903? Nice rec. the 903 is noice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted March 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) What about the GRACE M902 or M903? too competitor-y with the headphones Edited March 5, 2013 by justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purk Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) Another DAC which I've been recently recommended, not DSD capable but perhaps could be in the future with a firmware upgrade, which might interest Justin is the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 I haven't listened to it though, but since I'm working a loan deal to try the Mytek, eventually might get this one too. Anyone has direct experience?I own the W4S DAC-2 and think it is an excellent value at the asking price. It may sound a little mechanical but it has excellent resolution and details. All the positive reviews are true. Still I prefer my Modwright Denon 3910 to it. It is not as compact as most think but it is still much smaller than the PWD and approximately twice the size of the Benchmark DAC-1. I also own the April Music Eximus DP-1 and think it is a great DAC. I need to do a direct comparison b/w the W4S DAC-2 vs. Eximus DP1, but going from memory....I likely prefer the DP1 due to greater musicality. The Eximus is not that much bigger than the Benchmark DAC-1 and is portable enough. Edited March 5, 2013 by purk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 too competitor-y with the headphones This is a good point, and should rule out any devices that Head-Fi considers as all-in-one options like the Benchmark (even though the new DAC does sound great) and Lavry DA11 and Grace. There is a T+A DAC 8 reviewed on Compute Audiophile, but he didn't know how to work it most of the time he had it and the review is not that helpful. The main advantage for your search is the size of the T+A (rimshot). I think the Weiss DAC2 or a Metric Halo ULN-2 would be great, but would not solve the problem of other media like USB sticks and SD cards. Why can't you just drag them onto your computer and play them from there, which would sound better anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark baguette Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) Build quality on that Rowland is looking nice. I like the ayre-esque individual chambers I need to read up on this 'point of load' dc regulation and figure out if its special or just marketing speak. Do other dacs not care or bother about voltage matching? Some of the reviews make it sound like its (the dac, not point of load) just what I've been looking for. Edited March 5, 2013 by aardvark baguette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grawk Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Apogee symphony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted March 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I think the Weiss DAC2 or a Metric Halo ULN-2 would be great, but would not solve the problem of other media like USB sticks and SD cards. Why can't you just drag them onto your computer and play them from there, which would sound better anyway? that works if i have a laptop with me. it's easier to use a tablet, and the touchscreen interfaces are intuitive. at RMAF when I've used a laptop you'd be surprised how many people will come up to the computer and say "What do i do.." unfortunately, i have an iPad, and while you can use that with some DACs the possibility of using it with external media at the same time is very unlikely. an Android tablet, i bet it can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I know you'd like as little human interaction as possible, but you could be the one to handle the computer and let them just listen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlSeibert Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Rowland stuff is spectacular - audio jewelry. And for the most part, it sounds spectacular (or sounds like it's not there at all). But the price...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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