Beyer T1

[morphsci]

Indeed. But how to finance it? Would you pay a membership? How much?

Yes I would. I currently have a $100 membership on Head-Fi and that provides minimal data. Also, if you had somebody with a university connection, maybe even in a biology department, you could look at various NIH grants.

Edited March 9, 2010 by morphsci

[Tyll Hertsens]

I wonder if a hearing society would consider a research grant for such a thing.

The problem there is that you'd have to do research related. I think what's needed is headphone stuff for the hobby. Differences between grado pads, changes in amp output imp, j$ pads, etc.

Amp measurements, too.

Yes I would. I currently have a $100 membership on Head-Fi and that provides minimal data.

Generous guy, I doubt many are as generous. (Though I 've donated here personally.)

Sorry, getting off topic here. Back in my box.

[n_maher]

Generous guy, I doubt many are as generous. (Though I 've donated here personally.)

I think you'd find that initially people would be far more generous than you might expect so "seed $$" really wouldn't be the issue. Finding a way to sustain such an undertaking would be the real impediment from what I can see without over capitalizing it and having the results of any testing instantly in doubt due to the type of large corporate sponsorships that ultimately would be necessary.

[tkam]

I'd have no problem hosting something like that.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

[manaox2]

Whoever would taken on such an endeavor seems likely to need a legal slush fund which may prove as costly as anything else.

[xnor]

I did the numbers for the T1 and a 120ohm output impedance should lower the bass curve by around 4 dB which is a bit I would say and would certainly clear up some of the bass mismatch between the T1 and the HD800.

Wait... what? With 120 ohm Zout there should be a 0.8 dB bass boost. (and a 1.2 dB bass boost with the HD800s)

[Dreadhead]

Wait... what? With 120 ohm Zout there should be a 0.8 dB bass boost. (and a 1.2 dB bass boost with the HD800s)

So what do you define as a bass boost? What frequency and impedance?

The first number I gave was the power consumption relative to nominal at 100hz but I guess I should have used the relative audio output. That still comes out to 1.5dB for me at 100hz (1200 Ohm). Maybe I've done it wrong again:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ag41ab-9FY1KdFhwVnEtQkUwbTNEUFVKdjh1TXJYbnc&hl=en

[Dreadhead]

Since the damping is significantly acoustic or voice coil resistance related, you can't very easily make an undamped headphone with a damping adaptor.

In other words you can put 120 Ohms in series with the amp output if you want, but the only thing it's really doing is making the amp worse.

I tend to doubt the 'amp market' is big enough to have much effect. It's more about making the headphones sound good on crappy headphone jacks that still make up the majority of applications. Though, I will admit, it's getting bigger and better all the time.

Missed this before. As a counterpoint the ER4-P to S adapter is just a resistor and significantly modifies the tonal balance of the headphones.

Edited March 11, 2010 by Dreadhead

[xnor]

When calculating dB from power, you have to use 10*log... 20 is for voltages.

[Dreadhead]

When calculating dB from power, you have to use 10*log... 20 is for voltages.

Not when you're multiplying by a sensitivity to get the dB sound output amplitude per mW (or at least that's my understanding)

Edited March 11, 2010 by Dreadhead

[xnor]

Not when you're multiplying by a sensitivity to get the dB sound output amplitude per mW (or at least that's my understanding)

I don't understand this, but either way the differences are quite small (<=1 dB).

[swt61]

It's a science geek bitch fight! Quick grab a good seat!

[Dreadhead]

I don't understand this, but either way the differences are quite small (<=1 dB).

You know what you're right. I was thinking that because it was ratios of sound wave amplitudes the other one applied like it does for current or voltage. Oh well.

That said they're bigger than anything you'll see with a cable, balancing and/or changes between any low output impedance amp that I've measured. I think output impedance is probably the biggest single driver of the "tonal balance" of amplifiers. RSA has a high output impedance for just this reason. Also note that 1dB is most certainly noticeable for anyone over time, just try it with your various EQ's you're working on.

It's a science geek bitch fight! Quick grab a good seat!

Scientists don't bitch fight, well at least this one doesn't. When he's wrong he admits it.

[cetoole]

Got to hear these today at NYC, was really underwhelmed. Kinda sounded, I dunno, woolly to me. I don't even know if that is an audio term, but thats what they sounded like. Should have snagged them and listened on a different rig, just had the Beyer and some Headroom amps, and I think some onyko cdp or something. They were in the MOT room though, and I am not too familiar with how most MOT gear sounds, and I didn't care enough to take them outside in the rain to the member room, if I even could have gotten away with doing that. Really, really dug the frame though, so comfy.

[The Monkey]

I liked them, especially out of the Woo Whatever. Wool FTW.

[audio voyager]

I heard them out of a SPL Auditor playing CDs on a Mac. Next to a pair of DT880s, they sounded a lot clearer and well defined. There was a lot less bass, but that is not to say the bass didn't go as low as the DT880 600ohm They clamped a bit more but damn, they felt VERY sturdy and the earpads on them were very comfortable. I enjoyed them, but probably wouldn't go out and buy them as of now, they are not a can that blows me away.

[Asr]

I re-ordered a T1 not too long and got them today. About 1.5 hours of listening so far. I think these have been vastly overhyped on HF, I'm just finding too many aspects that are disappointing in one way or another. Too many to write about now. Ok it's not terrible but these just aren't giving me any listening enjoyment whatsoever whereas I can routinely get at least a little enjoyment with my Qualia, AD2K, HP2, JH13, or Stax OII/BHSE. I'm still going to hang onto them long-term for other reasons but this is just not what I was hoping for sonically.

[The Monkey]

Al has been kind enough to let me borrow his and I'm feeling much the same. I want to like them, but there's just something missing. i would like to have heard them out of the Luxman.

[mypasswordis]

I can routinely get at least a little enjoyment with my Qualia, AD2K, HP2, JH13, or Stax OII/BHSE

One would hope that would be the case. Anything particularly bad that stands out? Or is it all just kind of blah?

[Asr]

It's all kinda "average"-sounding - there's nothing particularly great about it. It sounds like it should be in the $300-$500 range of headphones along with the K701, HD600/HD650, etc. If it was in that price range, I'd call it a pretty good headphone. But at $1.3K it deserves a facepalm and shovel.

I have several hours of burn-in on it so far and my opinion still hasn't changed, but we'll see what develops, if anything.

I'm usually not one to bash others' opinions but I seriously have to call into question the raving at HF over this headphone by people such as Skylab, Macedonianhero, et al. Their standards have to be really low or they haven't heard many headphones if they think the T1 is as good as they claim.

[jpelg]

What are you sticking them into, Din? The β22 may be a bit too neutral for the T1's.

I know the Beyer & Headroom amps they were using at the last NY meet didn't do them justice at all. But I still liked them better than the HD800's that day, and thought they had a lot of potential. I do think some balancing of upstream gear is required, but isn't it always? IIRC, Rob (Skylab) uses only OTL tube amps, so he may be getting some synergy there. I didn't hear them out of the Woo amps, but that may be a similiar case.

At their old pricepoint, they had a chance of getting into my stable some time in the future when funds become available. But unfortunately, with the recent increase it's doubtful. That may be the thinking of a lot of people who were on the fence.

[strid3r]

I know the Beyer & Headroom amps they were using at the last NY meet didn't do them justice at all. But I still liked them better than the HD800's that day, and thought they had a lot of potential. I do think some balancing of upstream gear is required, but isn't it always? IIRC, Rob (Skylab) uses only OTL tube amps, so he may be getting some synergy there. I didn't hear them out of the Woo amps, but that may be a similiar case.

At their old pricepoint, they had a chance of getting into my stable some time in the future when funds become available. But unfortunately, with the recent increase it's doubtful. That may be the thinking of a lot of people who were on the fence.

I was at the last NY meet too and totally agree with you. I did get a chance to listen to them from the Woo amp (forgot which model), but I definitely preferred that setup over the Headroom/Beyer amp. It seemed to give them a bit of oomph and body that was missing in the Headroom amp.

[NightWoundsTime]

It's all kinda "average"-sounding - there's nothing particularly great about it. It sounds like it should be in the $300-$500 range of headphones along with the K701, HD600/HD650, etc. If it was in that price range, I'd call it a pretty good headphone. But at $1.3K it deserves a facepalm and shovel.

My thoughts were the same, until I directly compared it to the 650 and the Beyer 880. It may not be an improvement by 3, but it's definitely far more refined than anything in the under $500 pack. Disappointing to hear that they raised the prices, as $900 could have been a reasonable price point for it, IMO.

[jpelg]

^ Exactly.

I think that both the HD650 & DT880/600's are very good, and for not too much $$ (relatively speaking), a very nice setup can be built around either of them. While the T1 is more refined than either of these in many areas, it is of a debatable percentage. If the T1 was only twice their price ($7-800 range) they'd be ultra-competitive. At their intro price ($1000), they still offered a performance value that could be justified, albeit not a slam-dunk. At $1300, it's a difficult sell.

[mypasswordis]

It's all kinda "average"-sounding - there's nothing particularly great about it. It sounds like it should be in the $300-$500 range of headphones along with the K701, HD600/HD650, etc. If it was in that price range, I'd call it a pretty good headphone. But at $1.3K it deserves a facepalm and shovel.

I have several hours of burn-in on it so far and my opinion still hasn't changed, but we'll see what develops, if anything.

I'm usually not one to bash others' opinions but I seriously have to call into question the raving at HF over this headphone by people such as Skylab, Macedonianhero, et al. Their standards have to be really low or they haven't heard many headphones if they think the T1 is as good as they claim.

Heh, that's quite a harsh assessment. And on top of Colin's impression of them just being really woolly sounding, they really don't seem very appealing. Colin said my ET1000 was better sounding than the T1 even before he listened to it at the meet (actually I don't know that he ever did), but I'll try my best to tune it even better for when I bring it to CJ. At least Beyer can say it made a good sounding headphone at some point in its history, even if it was just in 1976.

Skylab thinks Darth Beyers sound good. 'Nuff said.