Beyer T1

[Knuckledragger]

A shame the latter isn't really music.

I'm not going to exert much energy defending Monotonous Snare Music, um I mean drum n bass. "IDM" is such a vague tag these days that it is essentially meaningless, but I occasionally find releases lumped in the genre that I like. Certainly, there were a lot of "IDM" artists in the 90s I liked then and continue to respect. As for ambient, from John Cage to Philip Glass to Pete Namlook to All India fricken Radio, all I can say is "O RLY" through about 3 miles of reverb.

[deepak]

I'm not going to exert much energy defending Monotonous Snare Music, um I mean drum n bass. "IDM" is such a vague tag these days that it is essentially meaningless, but I occasionally find releases lumped in the genre that I like. Certainly, there were a lot of "IDM" artists in the 90s I liked then and continue to respect. As for ambient, from John Cage to Philip Glass to Pete Namlook to All India fricken Radio, all I can say is "O RLY" through about 3 miles of reverb.

My post should have been taken with a generous dose of hyperbole

I like some ambient music.

[dreamwhisper]

I like some ambient music.

I do too occasionally.

People seem to really like the Ultimae recordings but I haven't been able to really get into them.

Ishq/Matt Hillier is really good ambient imo. Also bordering on ambient and downtempo, Evan Marc + Steve Hillage - Dreamtime Submersible is nice.

[catscratch]

A shame the latter isn't really music.

Tell that to Simon Posford.

Like any genre label that's entirely too broad, ambient has its share of electronic masturbation, and it has its share of brilliant music. And a lot of things that are dubbed ambient really aren't - but that's debating semantics.

[mypasswordis]

ambient has its share of electronic masturbation

I sometimes like to think of music as masturbation of the mind.

[blessingx]

And dance is...

[mypasswordis]

a delight to watch. And partake in, sometimes.

[nickchen]

I seem to have plunged into the oh-yeah-oh-babe crowd , no wonder Beyer's fluffy musicality is an also-ran here.

I like synthesizers. Always did. Vice versa, I find electrical guitars, longhaired singers and the rock&roll cliche (strophe-refrain-strophe-refrain-strophe-refrain ) quite annoying meanwhile.

[mypasswordis]

Slow crappy bass, no mids, and peaky treble != musicality imo. Not sure what you mean by fluffy. And if you can't stand rock, how do you stand drum and bass, in which every single song sounds exactly the same and pisses me off after only a few seconds?

Edit: Sorry, that wasn't supposed to come out harsh.

[swt61]

I sometimes like to think of music as masturbation of the mind.

Finally, an explanation for the rather large and numerous hairs growing in my ear canals lately.

[nickchen]

Slow crappy bass, no mids, and peaky treble != musicality imo. Not sure what you mean by fluffy. And if you can't stand rock, how do you stand drum and bass, in which every single song sounds exactly the same and pisses me off after only a few seconds?

Edit: Sorry, that wasn't supposed to come out harsh.

Don't know, maybe I'm the monotonous & introspective type.

I must give in though that there's a lot of awful D&B fluent, and even good stuff (e.g. Spring Heel Jack or Boymerang) sounds very questionable with approx. 85% of all existing cans. It definetely does sound good with a DT880'600, I can tell you!

[NightWoundsTime]

Brief tests last night suggested that some things are fixed by a high z output (facilitated by the 100 ohm patch cable that Ari built for me). Al claims that the soundstage is slightly collapsed, but the basic tonality boost might be worth it. Will listen more today.

[Iron_Dreamer]

The T1 needs to be used with a 120-ohm adapter for optimal sound quality. Without it, the sound signature is pretty thin and focused on the upper midrange. With the adapter, it fills out nicely and has a very good overall tonal balance. The highs have a bit more glare/harshness than I am used to with the JH13 (possibly a symptom of the T1's harmonic distortion profile). It's not bad by any means, and not annoying or overly distracting, but not perfect either. The HD800 exhibits some of the same issue. The T1 doesn't have as large a soundstage as the HD800, but otherwise performs fairly comparably.

[morphsci]

Brief tests last night suggested that some things are fixed by a high z output (facilitated by the 100 ohm patch cable that Ari built for me). Al claims that the soundstage is slightly collapsed, but the basic tonality boost might be worth it. Will listen more today.

The T1 needs to be used with a 120-ohm adapter for optimal sound quality. Without it, the sound signature is pretty thin and focused on the upper midrange. With the adapter, it fills out nicely and has a very good overall tonal balance. The highs have a bit more glare/harshness than I am used to with the JH13 (possibly a symptom of the T1's harmonic distortion profile). It's not bad by any means, and not annoying or overly distracting, but not perfect either. The HD800 exhibits some of the same issue. The T1 doesn't have as large a soundstage as the HD800, but otherwise performs fairly comparably.

Interesting. What amp was used for either or both of these?

[Dreadhead]

that doesn't surprise me, Beyer seems to design their phones around high z output amps, for whatever reason.

Yeah their own amp has an 100 ohm out. I think it may have been the IEC standard or something. I thought I read that somewhere

[nickchen]

I quite liked my DT880'250 with a 150 ohm resistor, but its synergy with the 600 ohm systems is negligible IMO.

[Iron_Dreamer]

Interesting. What amp was used for either or both of these?

I was using the Pico, I think Matt was using the Luxman.

[F1GTR]

The T1 needs to be used with a 120-ohm adapter for optimal sound quality. Without it, the sound signature is pretty thin and focused on the upper midrange. With the adapter, it fills out nicely and has a very good overall tonal balance. The highs have a bit more glare/harshness than I am used to with the JH13 (possibly a symptom of the T1's harmonic distortion profile). It's not bad by any means, and not annoying or overly distracting, but not perfect either. The HD800 exhibits some of the same issue. The T1 doesn't have as large a soundstage as the HD800, but otherwise performs fairly comparably.

Does the HD800 also benefit from using this? This is the first I've read of the adapter.

[Dreadhead]

Does the HD800 also benefit from using this? This is the first I've read of the adapter.

I doubt it since it appears that when they designed the 800 they appeared to be using the DAC1 amp circuit which is very low output impedance.

[Iron_Dreamer]

Does the HD800 also benefit from using this? This is the first I've read of the adapter.

I have not tried it, but I doubt it. Beyer has long designed their headphones to work optimally with a 120-ohm output impedance. It has been well documented by Jan Meier among others. So AFAIK this is an issue unique to their products.

[jpelg]

Interesting comments about the hi-Z output helping the T1's FR.

I have heard a difference using 120-ohm output with 250-ohm Beyer models, including DT770 & DT880's which are not explicitly advertised as needing 120-ohm outputs (as were the discontinued DT831/931 series which absolutely needed it). However, it differs from my experience with my 600-ohm DT880 Manufaktur, which is imperceptibly affected by plugging them into the 120-ohm output of my Prehead vs. the 0-ohm jack.

It also flies somewhat in the face of my admittedly limited understanding of electronic "theory" that a 600-ohm headphone be significantly affected by output impedance.

All that being said, my ears/gear may not be up to the task to hear the diff, theory is not always reality, and of course the T1 is a different headphone from the DT880's. So I will have to wait for the next NY meet to hear & compare.

[mypasswordis]

I would guess it's a matter of damping factor. With 250 ohm Beyers, damping factor is 2 with a 120 ohm jack. With 600 ohm Beyers, it's 5 so maybe try 300 ohms output impedance. Decreasing damping factor might even out frequency response but it makes the bass reflex'd bass even flabbier. If the bass is tight to begin with, it could work though.

[Tyll Hertsens]

FWIW the old IEC headphone measurement spec required using a 120 Ohm output impedance amp. The spec is now changed and says that manufacturers can specify a particular output impedance at which to measure the cans. Beyer was a proponant of the 120 Ohm spec and I wouldn't be surprised if they are still designing their headphones around it.

Personally I think it's stupid for high-end cans to be designed with a 120 Ohm output in mind.

[Dreadhead]

FWIW the old IEC headphone measurement spec required using a 120 Ohm output impedance amp. The spec is now changed and says that manufacturers can specify a particular output impedance at which to measure the cans. Beyer was a proponant of the 120 Ohm spec and I wouldn't be surprised if they are still designing their headphones around it.

Personally I think it's stupid for high-end cans to be designed with a 120 Ohm output in mind.

Thank you grand master for the confirmation And i agree with you about the issue. Wouldn't it be an easy to fix though? I figure you just figure out what impedance your amp has and add an adapter with resistor to give you 120 for Beyers.

[atothex]

It's easy enough, but it's one extra step that you wouldn't bother taking with any other headphone brand. So it's dumb.