My memory must be failing me, then.  I thought fuel cells were basically condensed fuel.

It doesn't really matter what the range is on your fuel cell vehicle Dusty, because as long as the infrastructure is there, you simply re-fuel. Not much different than a gasoline vehicle in that regard.

On the other hand, the Tesla Model S electric vehicle claims nearly 300 miles on a charge. That's vastly superior to other all electric cars. And they claim an 80% charge in 25 minutes. There are free charging stations popping up all over the U.S. 

The primary strength of fuel cell as I see it is you're replacing a toxic battery with one that turns into water.
The primary weakness is that they're less energy dense than the batteries, but still require access to lots of electricity to "charge" or create the hydrogen.

The primary strength of plug in electrics is that the batteries are power dense, and the technology is continuously improving
The primary weaknesses are the weight and toxicity of the batteries.

Probably significantly harder to steal a fuel cell than the batteries.

I vote fuel cell.  

The tesla has an incredible 0-60, and I would be dead inside of a week.

today, a vote of fuel cell would get you to the nearest filling station (10 Technology Dr,Wallingford, CT 0649), where you could fill up again, and get back to your house in maryland.  Then you'd never get to go anywhere else, because you'd be out of fuel.

I vote fuel cell.  

I vote denser cities with more trains connecting them, and a tax on personal cars to pay for their externalities.

I vote denser cities with more trains connecting them, and a tax on personal cars to pay for their externalities.

Doug, when did you move to San Francisco?   

Hartford is kind of like the San Francisco of the east ....

I vote denser cities with more trains connecting them, and a tax on personal cars to pay for their externalities.

Sounds like European Socialism. Why not add single payer Healthcare, free at the point of use, for all, while you are dreaming

That does sound terrible.

today, a vote of fuel cell would get you to the nearest filling station (10 Technology Dr,Wallingford, CT 0649), where you could fill up again, and get back to your house in maryland.  Then you'd never get to go anywhere else, because you'd be out of fuel.

So business as usual, then.  

I almost got to purchase-high-quality-original-and-fake-passports-drivers-license-and-ids

But my e-car battery wouldn't make the distance to Jose's place

It doesn't really matter what the range is on your fuel cell vehicle Dusty, because as long as the infrastructure is there, you simply re-fuel. Not much different than a gasoline vehicle in that regard.

Yeah, but...my ex commutes a little more than 50 miles one way, 2ce a day (1ce each way), 5 days a week.  If you told her to "simply refuel" every 250-300 miles (because 300 miles is optimal range, if you run into any traffic -- which she always does -- it goes down), she'd probably walk out of the showroom (assuming you were trying to sell her said car).  I tried to talk her into a diesel fer crying out loud and she didn't want to have to hunt for diesel fuel.  She basically had to refuel every other day with her previous vehicle, which only got about 275-300 miles/tank, because who drives until their tank is almost empty?

Dan, for that matter, with your commute -- would you ever get a car that had a maximum of 312 mile range on one tank?  EDIT:  Never mind, see you already answered that question in your own very efficient way.

So no, I'm not talking about an inconvenience that only affects the occasional road trip from Chicago to DC or whatnot, I'm talking daily commuter type stuff.  I certainly think the target market could handle the occasional inconvenience; I would be extremely interested in what sort of person could handle that sort of daily inconvenience (and I'm allowing that they exist -- my sister is one), and what their plans are to train the rest of the target market.

The DC area is not conducive to that sort of range in the long term.  Everything's spread out here, because it's literally a sprawling metropolis -- there are no skyscrapers here, whatsoever (it's the law).  So when "things go sideways" has a different meaning here -- it means growth here.  

 

Finally --  when I read "fuel cell" way back when (about 10-15 years ago?), my mind went "jet fuel", so I presumed since commuter cars wouldn't be driving at insane speeds, that instead that jet fuel would be used for range and lack of "filler" instead of performance and power.  Yeah, I can be kind of a goofball that way sometimes, but at least I don't pretend to be some sort of MENSA material.

Edited October 27, 201510 yr by Dusty Chalk

My commute is 110 miles a day, and I got a diesel.  I get 400-480 miles a tank, which means I fill up twice a week.  I'd do a car I could do 300 miles a trip, if the total cost of ownership is low enough.  I tried to get one of the electric honda fits, but they weren't for sale to people with a pennsylvania address.

My parents are thinking of getting a Chevy Volt. According to them it will do 80 km on its electric motor, and then switch over to its gas motor if required for another 450 km. Sounds okay to me - my commute is 12 km each way.

And today I played drums for the first time in a long time. I got blisters on me fingers.

with a 12 KM commute, you could commute in an abrahms tank and be ok

My commute is 110 miles a day, and I got a diesel.  I get 400-480 miles a tank, which means I fill up twice a week.  I'd do a car I could do 300 miles a trip, if the total cost of ownership is low enough.  I tried to get one of the electric honda fits, but they weren't for sale to people with a pennsylvania address.

Wow, that is a lot of driving. My new commute is 1 mile each way. I really need to start walking more often.

yes, it's too much driving.  It's not particularly out of the ordinary for the area, unfortunately.  I am looking for another work from home job, either now, or for when this contract ends in 15 months.

Meanwhile, Honda announced it's Clarity Fuel Cell vehicle (FCV)

http://blog.caranddriver.com/tomorrowland-we-drive-hondas-new-fuel-cell-vehicle/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/honda/fcv/

EDIT: + 

http://www.wired.com/2015/10/honda-clarity-hydrogen-fuel-cell-sales

 

 

Edited October 28, 201510 yr by Grahame

Wow, that is a lot of driving. My new commute is 1 mile each way. I really need to start walking more often.

Or ride a bike?

It is much safer to walk!

Not if you're being chased by werewolves.  I'd give you an even shot of getting away, on a bike.  Not me, I'd just let them catch me:  I like dogs, so I figure they'd make me into one of them.  Hawooooooo!!!

Yeah, but they'd probably chew a hole through your tire, so then you'd have to teach some pups a lesson.

Or zombies. What about the zombies?

We got to go up and visit with the new dog again today. She's due in late November, and since we're going to take both her and the one puppy, we will actually be able to bring them home closer to Christmas than late January like we had thought. It's still going to be tough to wait, but she's a sweet dog and it'll be worth it.

Went to the Presidential Lecture Series given by Mario Vargas Llosa.