dsavitsk Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 The second, which might be more interesting to you, is a small push-pull amp based on the Russian 4P1L directly heated pentode (triode connected). Output transformers are recycled from an old Fisher 500C. Input stage is simply a W.E. 418A driving an Electra-Print autoformer. Cool. Small push-pull amps are underexplored in the headphone world, and at least in my experiance, can work quite well. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wink Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Beta22 + HD800 = meh. I would guess that the "meh" is a comparative, and not an absolute one....... YMMV as to the distance between meh and good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger945 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Also, digger945 has one, I think. It's almost ready to go back together. Small push-pull amps are underexplored in the headphone world, and at least in my experiance, can work quite well. KG mentions push pull every other month, sometimes with dht in the sentence . Mine sounded fantastic when running. Apart now for some changes, mainly doing away with the pcb's for a more user friendly bias control. Never enough free time these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 It's almost ready to go back together. Keep us updated on how that goes, looks really nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) Yes, DHT push pull is great. What would be even better is to find a way to get someone to wind an output transformer with the mcintosh cross coupled cathode winding. A pair of 300B's done that way would be a great headphone amp. Here is my opinion on power levels. The amp needs to be able to put 5 watts into 50 ohms. So on amps with 16 ohm taps, it needs to be at least a 15 watt amp. On amps with only 8 ohm taps, it needs to be 30. So an old tube dynaco if you can find one that works probably sounds very good. The atmasphere is in fact push pull OTL tube. scott... you know that sand and tubes is verboten Edited December 5, 2011 by kevin gilmore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torpedo Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 . I would guess that the "meh" is a comparative, and not an absolute one....... YMMV as to the distance between meh and good. IMHO it's pretty absolute. The B22 is a control machine which does nothing to give bass the type of "blossom" and development the HD800 require to sound full. Plus it does nothing to hide recording mistakes and brightness, which the HD800 will portray merciless. With the Beta the HD800 fall into the analytic side of things, which is just "meh", but well, re-thinking the initial statement, it's relative to the listener's taste and preferences, as usual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complin Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) Here is my opinion on power levels. The amp needs to be able to put 5 watts into 50 ohms. So on amps with 16 ohm taps, it needs to be at least a 15 watt amp. On amps with only 8 ohm taps, it needs to be 30. So an old tube dynaco if you can find one that works probably sounds very good. How about the old Quad II's (overkill!) or a Radford STA 15 ? A bit pricey these days but classic sound. There is the Leben CS300 which I think is push-pull and has a headphone socket. Tim de Paravicini and his EAR Yoshino models might be worth a try also, he has some great push-pull integrated designs. His HP4 headphone amp is transformer coupled but is only 1 watt so would not meet your power output criteria? Edited December 5, 2011 by complin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) The headphones are nominally 60 ohms. Most of those old classic amps had at most 16 ohm taps. So to get enough voltage to match the current needed, you have to bump the theoretical power. So say 5 watts into 16 ohms turns into the equivalent of 15 watts into 48 ohms. I have a couple of quad II's in the basement i should dig them up and see if they still work, they definitely had 16 ohm taps, maybe 32 ohms ?? (nah) The radford, i know nothing about. For those hooking up to MC240's and MC275's do it in 4 wire mode, or remember that the 4 ohm tap is actually ground, so you would tie the 2 x 4 ohm taps together and that is headphone ground, then use the 16 ohm taps. Otherwise the amp is going to get mighty pissed off. Edited December 5, 2011 by kevin gilmore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complin Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) The radford, i know nothing about. http://www.adventure...rd-electronics/ Here is some information on the Radfords, these are legendary British amplifiers and were designed to drive the Quad ESL 57's and later Arthur Bailys transmission line speakers when the Radford company branched out into manufacturing speakers. Together with the Quad II and Leak TL20 they are one of the most sought after classic amps in the UK and Europe. I do see the odd one crop up in the US on ebay though. For those hooking up to MC240's and MC275's do it in 4 wire mode, or remember that the 4 ohm tap is actually ground, so you would tie the 2 x 4 ohm taps together and that is headphone ground, then use the 16 ohm taps. Otherwise the amp is going to get mighty pissed off. These vintage McIntosh make serious money over here, at least $3k to $4k or more Edited December 6, 2011 by complin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwmclean Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 I would love to try one of Nelson’s FWs with these cans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 That is certainly on my to-do list. The F5 will be interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvdunhill Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 that would have to be on an amplifer to amplifier basis. Way too much trouble. i'm not sure how it's any more or less trouble then.... well, building another amp Also, notice that most beta22 builders already install a Zobel that could be causing ill-effects here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spychedelic Whale Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 What about the less expensive burson 160 pairs well with them ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complin Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 What would be even better is to find a way to get someone to wind an output transformer with the mcintosh cross coupled cathode winding. A pair of 300B's done that way would be a great headphone amp. I think this guy on ebay may be the legendary Bob Carver who is retired, and he winds his own transformers. He also builds power amps so might be worth asking him the question? http://myworld.ebay.com/audioshopper/?_trksid=p4340.l2559 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwmclean Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 What about the less expensive burson 160 pairs well with them ? Good amp. Solid performer. Pairs well with the LCD-2. Soiled it's panties around the Beta22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsavitsk Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) this guy on ebay may be ... Bob Carver http://www.diyaudio....candy-ebay.html see posts 50, 56, 57, etc. Edited December 8, 2011 by dsavitsk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complin Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) http://www.diyaudio....candy-ebay.html see posts 50, 56, 57, etc. Yes very interesting but the thread didn't really come to any firm conclusion, and as we all know stuff on the net isn't always what it appears to be. However the seller address on ebay is listed as Snohomish , WA, United States. Isn't this the area where the Carver and Sunfire amps were produced from when they were in production? There is new site Carvers audio service http://carverservice.../carver_006.htm operating from Snohomish too and the site is copyright Bob Carver? Ritas Vintage Audio Repair mentioned in your thread is also listed in the same town but at 1920 Bickford Ave.! The plot thickens - According to a Facebook entry Ritas is supposedly owned by Bob Carver http://www.facebook....4695717?sk=info Perhaps there is a Head-Case member who lives near Snohomish could check it out in person sometime? Then we might verify if the guy on ebay is genuine or not and might be persuaded to build some transformers Edited December 8, 2011 by complin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsavitsk Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 The consensus seems to be that it is BC. The question is whether it is all nonsense or not. I have no opinion on that, I thought Bud's posts were interesting (Bud makes Onetics transformers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorbidToaster Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 I thought I'd start my time here on Head-Case with some sharing. Put a little of my own spin on the typical LCD 2. Thanks for having me, guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitz Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torpedo Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pars Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 You might end your time here with that... god are those fugly. I'd read your PM btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwmclean Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Originally Posted by MorbidToaster I'm just trying to find the best SS amp I can get for the money. If the Apache, DS, and B22 are close enough sound wise I'd just get the Apache and use it as my Preamp as well. Best bang for the buck is really what I'm shooting for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Leaning heavily to the left there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complin Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) So i have birgir's pair of LCD2's here for extended listening while the transistors are on their way back from england. They sound so dramatically different on all the amps i have tried, And measurements show that these things generate signifant amounts of back EMF, and therefore require an amplifier with a very low output impedance to sound right. OTL tube amps, Good enough that i will be buying my own pair on monday, and i'll skip the lcd3's for now and get lcd4's later. Kevin are these LCD2 Rev1's or Rev2's? What's your opinion of the LCD2 so far and how do you think they compare to Stax or other stats? The main limitation I find is the relatively narrow soundstage, What improvements do you think connecting it to a speaker amp gives? Edited December 11, 2011 by complin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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