What does gay pride mean to you?

[Sherwood]

On 6/8/2024 at 1:20 AM, swt61 said:

Good luck putting the genie back in the bottle.

I wouldn't wish them luck, dedicated groups of Americans have put genies back in bottles before.

[swt61]

With respect, you don't know the genies I know.

[mikeymad]

Thanks for the thread Steve. I finally had a chance to read through it, and I appreciate the sharing. I wanted to share some thoughts from an event tonight. Every Tuesday night Communities of Belonging hosts a community meeting. Tonight was my night to host, and I wanted Pride Month as my topic. Last year when I hosted, I chose, How you were touched by Pride. Anyway: After the grounding, I led a discussion with the check-in question - What does Pride Month mean to you? (inspiration acknowledged) 

As host, I kicked it off. The main thing I think about, when I presented the topic was, freedom. I don't think of anything as boastful or other negative connotations with pride. I really see it as something deeper, more about a celebration of self. Being on a journey over the last three years or so in a search for self, I can appreciate and connect with it. Who doesn't want to be able to say, here I am, and be seen and heard? Others shared their personal experiences, from different orientations. I really liked one of our older members talking about it being like 'our' Christmas. I found one persons thoughts interesting, having a pretty strict religious upbringing, that it was drilled into him from an early age that 'pride' was bad/evil, in all its forms. He has had to unlearn that - and let it go, because it didn't align with his personal beliefs once he was grown. 

My second discussion topic was, how can we be better allies to the queer (I prefer this term) individuals throughout the year? With the concept of expanding the concentrated awareness during June to the everyday. I had not thought about this question until I posed it. My main thoughts are around acceptance and also calling people to task. I always think of the phrase 'Be careful who you hate, it could be someone you love'. This comes up in context of my extended family, in both directions, some are haters and some are members of a community that they hate. Also the sobering thought of 'Right now, someone is willing to take their life rather than come out'.  All of this is just unacceptable. I work on the basic premise of acceptance. Oh that is who you are? Cool. But other discussions opened up the topic of Dignity. And the one that really stuck with me was being Affirming. To not just be accepting, but to let people know that you are an ally. Being accepting can be passive, the other person takes all the risk in trusting that there is acceptance on the other side. So that is something that I can take into my future, not to just be accepting and calling people out, but to be affirming. 

Cheers

[swt61]

Your post reminded me of my own coming out story. First off, I knew my truth very early on. But I really struggled with self loathing and shame. In the time period when I grew up, it was quite the norm to denigrate the masculinity of a gay man. If you were gay, you were also a sissy, at least in the minds of the ignorant. And I too was ignorant. Therefore I was actually afraid that I was going to morph into a much more effeminate version of myself. I'm not kidding. That's what I thought was going to happen. And that caused me enormous distress. It really wasn't until I was in college and really exploring the gay lifestyle and gay clubs, bathhouses and the like, that I started to understand that wasn't a reality. Actually the reality was that the stereotypical effeminate gay male was but a small subsection of the gay community. That discovery is what allowed me to develop a sense of self worth, as ridiculous as that sounds today.

You had to grow up in that time to understand how denigrated we were then, and how we were perceived by the general public.

[swt61]

Well it's the last day of Pride Month, and I can't think of a better ending than this...

 

[n_maher]

Thanks for sharing your story, Steve.  

 

[blessingx]

 

[Torpedo]

16 hours ago, swt61 said:

Well it's the last day of Pride Month, and I can't think of a better ending than this...

 

I can't watch the video, it's not available "in my country"

[swt61]

It's basically Elton John at the sight of Stonewall in NYC, talking about how far we've come, but how MAGA are making new anti LGBTQ laws and trying to strip back the rights we've gained. But in his speech he says "no fucking way" which gets an uproarious applause, and a chuckle out of Biden.

[swt61]

Elton has "walked the walk" for decades now. At one point in the AIDS crisis, he donated 100% of his American record proceeds to two AIDS organizations that he founded. Between himself and Liz Taylor, they managed to turn the tide of Reagan's "let them die" attitude towards the epidemic.

Elton will always be a hero of mine for his unwavering financial and emotional support. This was at a time when I was losing friends every month, and deathly afraid that my own days were imminently numbered. Elton's actions inspired me to join our local Anchorage AIDS volunteer asscociation (AAAA), where I felt like I was actually doing something to make a difference. I have never been in the military, and in no way do I want to diminish what those brave men and women do, but I do feel like I was at war then. This was when many nurses and doctors were hesitant to enter the rooms of AIDS patients, and we were there to care for those poor souls as best we could. As rough and frightening as those days were, that crisis turned me into someone that I can live with today. I'm proud of my actions, when I wasn't sure of the risk I was exposing myself to.

And I give Elton and Liz a lot of credit for turning the tide in public opinion.

I'll climb down from my high horse now, for another year.

Edited July 1 by swt61

[swt61]

Actually, I first want to express my deep gratitude for the complete acceptance that I have received from this very fine group of people! 

I joined this forum of beautiful people at a time in my life where I was again facing idiotic mindsets and manurisms from those around me, especially at my workplace. And this place, and you people were my respite from the ignorance of those that I dealt with at the time.

Edited July 1 by swt61

[EdipisReks1]

It’s not “gay pride” to me. But I’m newly queer. I’m a man who has sex with men. I only came out recently. I took my soon to be step son to Pride this last weekend. I went to a “bachelor party” this last night and had people like this.  But it wasn’t “gay pride.” I’m not “gay.” I am queer though. Do I count? Do we? We don’t care if you don’t think we do. We are here. And we are queer.

 We fucking count. I’m sorry I’m not queer enough for you, Steve.

Edited July 3 by EdipisReks1

[EdipisReks1]

Is this queer enough for you for you to have me be queer enough for Pride? She’s my best friend.

How many assholes do I gotta fuck and how many marches do I have to go on before it’s not “Gay Pride?”

Do you have a fucking answer on that one, or would you prefer I don’t exist?

Edited July 3 by EdipisReks1

[EdipisReks1]

What does “gay pride mean to me?” You didn’t have shit to say to me when I came out to you. So maybe shut the fuck up. Hypocritical scumbag sack of shit. 

Edited July 3 by EdipisReks1

[Sherwood]

If you have a personal issue with Steve I'd rather you picked up a phone, Jacob.  He has been an ally and friend to many people here for years, it feels petty to libel him.  Congratulations on coming out, I wish you a happy and fulfilling marriage.

Edited July 3 by Sherwood

[skullguise]

^^ X2.  Congrats on your wedding Jacob.....and you absolutely DO count!  But please try and get rid of the anger.  If you and Steve don't get along, it's between you two.

 

[blessingx]

Wait, is July Hate Month? 

[TMoney]

I am very surprised to see the hostility. Steve is one of the kindest people I’ve met. 

[swt61]

WTF?

I'm thoroughly confused!

I haven't exchanged a word with Jacob in years! I have no idea where this is coming from. Bazaar!!!

However, I'll attempt a reply at what I can only assume ws some kind of drunken rant.

Firstly, I don't distinguish between Queer and Gay people. Or Lesbian, Bisexual and Transexual people. We're lumped into one group for a reason. Because we're all discriminated for our sexual identities. They're all my family in this fight. They all deserve the same respect as our heterosexual counterparts. 

Secondly, I have no memory of you ever coming out to me. That's not to say it never happened, but unlike many, I'm not at all shocked when I hear that someone is coming out as LGBTQ+. So it doesn't leave a real impression or memory. Especially if it's someone I have very little contact with on a day to day basis.

When I came out on this forum in 2010 I believe, I had a few members private message me to tell me of their LGBTQ+ status. I did not share those revelations with this forum, because that's not my place to do so. Nor did I have any desire to do so. I felt honored that they'd want to share that with me, but if and when they choose to out themselves is their business and nobody else's.

Jacob and I have never shared any kind of comradery on either forum. He was always standoffish to me, and I let that be. I remember the first time we met face to face. It was in 2010, Chicago Can Jam, just before I came out. I wanted to meet everyone I could face to face before coming out, because I wanted them to meet Steve, not 'the gay guy', if that makes sense to you? Anyway, the day I arrived in Chicago and met several people, a group of a dozen or so of us decided to get some lunch at a local restaurant. Jacob was one of those people. At some point during lunch Jacob announced "hey, you seem like a nice guy. I really expected you to be a complete asshole". Noone really said anything to that. Including myself. How do you answer a statement like that? Especially when it's stated in a public setting?

For me that kind of set the tone for our relationship, or lack there of. While I've never put any member on ignore, I pretty much just skipped over his posts. Then came the giant explosion, where Jacob deleted most of the forum,  by accident or on purpose. Again, I assumed alcohol related. I had a lot of back content lost forever. Posts and pictures of building things. My turntable, headphone stands etc... pictures that I had no other backup for. And yes, it pissed me off. But we move on. Then when Jacob reappeared I continued to pretty much ignore him. I have no idea of the events in his life. I couldn't tell you anything about him. I've had no contact of any kind in many years. And I've been more than OK with that. I've not encouraged or discouraged other members from interacting with him. In short, I really just haven't thought much about him in any way. Maybe that's the source of his anger? Maybe not? Honestly I don't really care.

However, suddenly accusing me of some kind of prejudice against Queer vs. Gay is just silly. It doesn't really deserve a response, but I guess I chose to do so at any rate.

Now I'll go back to ignoring Jacob. That's what works best for me.

[recstar24]

Steve,

Thank you for sharing a little more of your story! I very much appreciate it. As for canjam chicago 2010, I’m glad you brought that up as that was the first time (and maybe only time?) I’ve met you in person and you were and are absolutely wonderful. You may recall I believe we had lunch at Giordano’s with my wife and I just think you are awesome. That is all

[swt61]

Thank you Ryan. I remember that lunch well. You and your wife left a lasting impression. Your work with children I find very admirable! We haven't met in person since then, but I do now and will continue to think of you as a friend.

[Voltron]

Jacob is acting like a cunt no matter what sexual orientation he wants to claim. And I don't believe for one second that he came out to Steve except in his twisted imagination.

I don't know why he was let back onto the forum after blowing up half of the content but he'll stay on ignore as far as I'm concerned. I won't see any reply from him so I won't be as gracious as Steve and try to respond to him.

[morphsci]

I think I would have used the term didactic cuntery just because it sounds more descriptive, but that is me.

[Sherwood]

On 7/3/2024 at 5:19 PM, swt61 said:

I wanted to meet everyone I could face to face before coming out, because I wanted them to meet Steve, not 'the gay guy', if that makes sense to you?

For what it's worth, Steve, my wife and I first met you at MOA after you had already come out to this group.  You might have been the only openly gay man there (I do not remember) but when my wife and I talked about you later you were "the woodworker".  This was before everyone here became woodworkers.

[swt61]

That could be a double entendre.