morphsci Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 I do not see this ending well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 So are the crossovers in the earpieces, or in the adaptor? Also, I could have swore that the whole sonic draw to the amp was that it would be using active crossovers. thats what i thought too. you could tailor the frequency response. how is that going to work if the crossovers are in the earpiece....is it just going to be an equalization circuit inside the amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monsieurguzel Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Yeah, their explanation is pretty weird and I have a hard time understanding if they are still active crossovers or not. Since there are 3 amps controlling the different earpieces, it seems that they are still active. Anyhow, I decided to get out of this mess about a week or two ago even though I had received my unit a couple months back. Jerry was nice enough to let me send mine back in for a refund after I voiced my concerns. As for the JH3a and my extended experience with it, I thought it was pretty good and pretty much the best iems that I've heard to date...but the unit is just too clunky and hard to connect to anything other than computer USB, making it not very practical for everyday use like a regular set of IEMs. The sound signature was punchy but I always felt that detail could be a lot more refined and they seemed a little muddy for my tastes. Even for me that was a big proponent of the system ever since Canjam, I just find it really hard for anybody to actually stay on as or right now. Just wait for it to come out and then order it since there is nothing to lose in being cautious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetoole Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 I read it as passive x-over in the earpieces and tri-amping with adjustable bass boost. Kind of kills all the appeal for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recstar24 Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 I read it as passive x-over in the earpieces and tri-amping with adjustable bass boost. Kind of kills all the appeal for me. Yup that is how I read it as well, and it even states that the three amps drive the passive crossovers in the earpieces. The amps are adjusted through eq. Basically it is not at all what was advertised at can jam and is a completely different concept as far as I am concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Monkey Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Did JHA get into a patent dispute with another party? (the developer who left?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessingx Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Sounds like new JH got in a conflict with old JH (UE). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Monkey Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Ah, right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 I am so glad I didn't jump on this bandwagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessingx Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Hope things work out for JP and Vickie. Would love to be a fly on the wall near JHAs table at RMAF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp11801 Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 I am pretty bummed by this turn of events as my whole reason for buying into the concept was the active crossovers + DSP piece. The DSP is still there with phase and time alignment but it feels like not a whole product at this point. Given the trade off between size usability and sound I have to hear the final product to make a determination. I thought the 3a + halide usb bridge was a top flight combo and one I could easily live with. I'm not so sure that I want the new unit but I'm going to reserve judgement unit after I hear it at RMAF. I've done a fair bit of rationalization on this 16 month road but it is still a DAC/AMP combo for $1800 so the amp/dac is really $600. I am really torn between a pico slim or pico dac amp and the 13s I already have or stick it out. I'm not sure I can keep the unit as if it is a patent issue JH will most likely want to trade these units out and not be able to offer ongoing support for them. This has to be killing the folks at JH, for me it is just one of a few rigs but for them it was a flagship concept. Not saying they could have avoided this but it still sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pars Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 I wonder if this is really JH's IP (from UE), or were others at UE involved in whatever it is they got the patent(s) for? I suppose technically anything that JH conceived of while at UE is their property, but it still doesn't seem right if it was his original IP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monsieurguzel Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Yeah, I'm pretty bummed about the whole outcome of it even though i received mine around the same time as you JP. The problem for me though was that every time I would look at my unit I would get really upset with the whole turnout of events, what was promised vs. what was delivered, and just the overall unfinished feel the unit had to it. It obviously gives me very little confidence when they kept recalling my unit to get tweaked and they are still changing things up since I received mine in June! With this whole patent issue i'm wondering if UE will be jumping on the bandwagon of doing active crossovers or not. They have a whole lot more resources behind them (being backed by logitech and all), so there is a possibility that they'll take advantage of the situation on release something in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Dreamer Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 I am pretty bummed by this turn of events as my whole reason for buying into the concept was the active crossovers + DSP piece. The DSP is still there with phase and time alignment but it feels like not a whole product at this point. Given the trade off between size usability and sound I have to hear the final product to make a determination. I thought the 3a + halide usb bridge was a top flight combo and one I could easily live with. I'm not so sure that I want the new unit but I'm going to reserve judgement unit after I hear it at RMAF. I've done a fair bit of rationalization on this 16 month road but it is still a DAC/AMP combo for $1800 so the amp/dac is really $600. I am really torn between a pico slim or pico dac amp and the 13s I already have or stick it out. I'm not sure I can keep the unit as if it is a patent issue JH will most likely want to trade these units out and not be able to offer ongoing support for them. This has to be killing the folks at JH, for me it is just one of a few rigs but for them it was a flagship concept. Not saying they could have avoided this but it still sucks. The active crossover was the big deal, revolutionary to have in an earphone, to me. Now that it's not there, well it might still sound good, but I doubt it will perform AS well. Pretty much a big fail, but I guess Jerry screwed himself a bit by trying to patent it at UE even though he never had the financial backing to build it while he was there. FWIW JP, I've greatly enjoyed the Hifiman HM801+ Pico Slim with my JH13s. It is definitely a step up from the Pico Slim+Pico DAC or Pico DAC/Amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Monkey Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Would love to be a fly on the wall near JHAs table at RMAF. I'll do my best. Bzzzzz.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Yeah, I'm pretty bummed about the whole outcome of it even though i received mine around the same time as you JP. The problem for me though was that every time I would look at my unit I would get really upset with the whole turnout of events, what was promised vs. what was delivered, and just the overall unfinished feel the unit had to it. It obviously gives me very little confidence when they kept recalling my unit to get tweaked and they are still changing things up since I received mine in June! With this whole patent issue i'm wondering if UE will be jumping on the bandwagon of doing active crossovers or not. They have a whole lot more resources behind them (being backed by logitech and all), so there is a possibility that they'll take advantage of the situation on release something in the future. doubt it. they'll probably just sit on it and do nothing. the market for this is tiny compared to the bigger business of selling IEMs. let the count down begin! is it 17 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monsieurguzel Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 True. Now that I think of it logitech has a tendency to botch a lot of things....squeezebox anybody? I felt there was so much more innovation and support before they got bought out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsavitsk Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 is it 17 years? 20 If in fact UE is not going to use the patent, it probably just means that someone will have to pay a licensing fee. 20 years is a long time in technology terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadhead Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) We have removed the active crossover from the amp and put it back into the earpiece. This change allows the earpieces to be used without being married to the amp. We have had many customers request this flexibility and we are happy to be able to offer it.(An 8-Pin to 3.5 mm male mini adapter is required. With the adaptor, the JH16 may be used as a normal passive crossover earpiece and can be plugged into any source a typical JH16 would. There is no impact to the audio quality for either application. We will offer the adaptor, with the price being determined next week.) The 3A still has 3 internal amps (low, mid and high) driving the passive crossover components in the earpiece. This allows us to EQ and delay each amp for the particular component in order to correct EQ and phase.[*]The 3A can run in either 2 amp mode (mids and highs) or 3 amp mode (lows, mids and highs) by switching between the B/M switch. [*]In 2-way mode, the low end response is perfectly flat. In 3-way mode the bass response is +3db to +14db depending on the bass amp volume control setting. [*]Amp stage is totally silent [*]The analog input has been increased so the gain is closer to gain of the the digital input So by my reading of their stuff there is still an active DSP cross over. What's happened is that they put an passive crossover circuit in the earpiece on each channel (low pass, band pass and high pass that work in parallel when attached to a "standard headphone adapter") then now they do the DSP and frequency response adjustment with the circuits in system. Should work the same in the end but also offer the option of using the phones with a regular amp as well. It's BS they did this so late in the game but in the end the system sounds superior for a lot of users. Edited October 11, 2011 by Dreadhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 A patent is valid upon issuance and for 20 years from the application filing date, which they claim was 6 years ago. Not that it matters, but hey. So, Jerry knew the UE patent application was pending and yet he created a JH Audio product incorporating the technology? This is just one more example of sleazy behavior on the part of JH Audio, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) at least on HF i think people liked the "purity" of removing the cheap passive xover components from the earpieces. anyone could have just come out with a DAC that offers an equalizer on the plus side at least they are away from McBeth's signature amplifier hissing. Edited October 11, 2011 by justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadhead Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 at least on HF i think people liked the "purity" of removing the cheap passive xover components from the earpieces. anyone could have just come out with a DAC that offers an equalizer on the plus side at least they are away from McBeth's signature amplifier hissing. Not quite the same as a dac with an equalizer and phase corrector since each channel is corrected with its own separate channel which makes it a lot easier and probably makes sure it's done better but yes you have a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadphoneAddict Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Well, I wonder if the tri-amp will still use "EQ" to reduce the frequencies going to each driver. That isn't quite the same as an active cross-over, is it? And I'm not sure that the small components in the ear-piece crossover really have that much adverse effect on the sound, do they? But being able to improve phase coherence through the DAC>DSP>amp instead of with the passive crossover and audio filters should still result in a nice improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozebuttons Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 I am pretty bummed by this turn of events as my whole reason for buying into the concept was the active crossovers + DSP piece. The DSP is still there with phase and time alignment but it feels like not a whole product at this point. Given the trade off between size usability and sound I have to hear the final product to make a determination. I thought the 3a + halide usb bridge was a top flight combo and one I could easily live with. I'm not so sure that I want the new unit but I'm going to reserve judgement unit after I hear it at RMAF. I've done a fair bit of rationalization on this 16 month road but it is still a DAC/AMP combo for $1800 so the amp/dac is really $600. I am really torn between a pico slim or pico dac amp and the 13s I already have or stick it out. I'm not sure I can keep the unit as if it is a patent issue JH will most likely want to trade these units out and not be able to offer ongoing support for them. This has to be killing the folks at JH, for me it is just one of a few rigs but for them it was a flagship concept. Not saying they could have avoided this but it still sucks. Jp, Let me know what you think of the new unit as opposed to the one you have,I am in the same boat as you as I still have mine & would keep it as is if JHA would support it. My earpieces fit perfectly ,I wouldn't want a refit which JHA would have to do for the crossovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp11801 Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Jp, Let me know what you think of the new unit as opposed to the one you have,I am in the same boat as you as I still have mine & would keep it as is if JHA would support it. My earpieces fit perfectly ,I wouldn't want a refit which JHA would have to do for the crossovers. Will do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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