complin Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 After a couple of days with the LCD-2's I dare say I like them a lot. The sound reminds me of the SR-007Mk1 and their faults are few and far between. The bass is just a tad bit loose (probably the M3 at fault) and the top end is even darker than on the 007 but other than that these are very, very good. Now the build quality is atrocious though. I have to agree as this is what I found myself several months ago, and said at the other place - very similar in overall sound signature to the SR-007Mk1. However; the disappointing part for me is the soundstage, which I find narrower than than the 007 and there does not seem to be the same level of layering. I also managed to brighten up the high end by using a bright solid sate amp and silver interconnects. Overall very pleasing for the price. I think the build quality and design reflects these are products from a very small young company, almost a cottage industry. I personally don't like the headband, but judging by the weight of the drivers it needs to very robust, so I presume that's why its quite a chunk of metal. However; this seems just to add further to the weight and its a pity Audeze didn't get a design engineer to come up with something better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torpedo Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) The LCD-2 sure isn't perfect but I like it for the same reason I like the oldest Stax headphones, the flaws don't detract from the enjoyment of the beautiful, beautiful music. It's quite sad that a majority of people buying these headphones would believe it... Regardless I'm hearing that Kevin will be making a special limited edition vintage silver cable for these phones and I'm sure I will be sent a free sample in exchange for some shilling. This seems to be the normal arrangement on HF these days... I for one have never been able to like the HD800. It does some things ok but for that type of sound the HE60 is simply better in every way. I haven't listened to the HE60 in my life so can't agree nor disagree, but knowing the way we hear both, it's very likely we'd agree If that custom vintage silver wire for the LCD-2 is balanced, I want one too, so more shilling, as usual Now seriously, it'd be interesting trying these balanced from the Gilmore Ref. In the worst case with an adapter I could play with some other amps. I have this YBA which could drive them to fire Edited December 14, 2011 by Torpedo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 First time I heard them, I agreed. After playing with them a little last weekend, my sense is that to my ears they, like Grados, do much better with an amp that has a non-zero Zout. High feedback just seems to lead to over damping, but run them with something that has a Zout around 10 Ohms and they warm up nicely and gain a little punch. It's well worth a try. I'm going to try and swing by the Senn distributor and bring what ever amps I can throw together for a shootout. Their source sucks so I guess I'll have to bring a DAC as well... The LCD's sound pretty nice, but I can't get past how heavy they are. Here's where the viking gene's come into play. for me since I don't mind the weight at all. I noticed it at first but after an hour they just aren't there. I guess I'm also used to the very heavy headphones such as the Stax Sigmas, 4070 etc. I have to agree as this is what I found myself several months ago, and said at the other place - very similar in overall sound signature to the SR-007Mk1. However; the disappointing part for me is the soundstage, which I find narrower than than the 007 and there does not seem to be the same level of layering. I also managed to brighten up the high end by using a bright solid sate amp and silver interconnects. Overall very pleasing for the price. I think the build quality and design reflects these are products from a very small young company, almost a cottage industry. I personally don't like the headband, but judging by the weight of the drivers it needs to very robust, so I presume that's why its quite a chunk of metal. However; this seems just to add further to the weight and its a pity Audeze didn't get a design engineer to come up with something better. The soundstage doesn't bother me as it is about the same in size as the 007. No layering or depth though but given the price difference it doesn't bother be either. The headband is just bad and for this weight it should have been suspended. Much more expensive though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 I haven't listened to the HE60 in my life so can't agree nor disagree, but knowing the way we hear both, it's very likely we'd agree If that custom vintage silver wire for the LCD-2 is balanced, I want one too, so more shilling, as usual Now seriously, it'd be interesting trying these balanced from the Gilmore Ref. In the worst case with an adapter I could play with some other amps. I have this YBA which could drive them to fire It really wouldn't be a problem to make a simple balanced cable for you. A HD650 cable is about 20€ and the connectors about the same. Even something using the Cardas cable wouldn't be too expensive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spychedelic Whale Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 I believe it's has been overlooked for being over exaggerated FOM over the other side but I find it to be one of the best deals specially for the used price and as for amping even from a mp3 player sounds not amazing but good. I find the sound stage about the same as the 007 too, after bending the headband so it doesn't clamp so hard and sits lightly made it more open. I just hate how much it weights .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzziguy Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 The LCD-2 sure isn't perfect but I like it for the same reason I like the oldest Stax headphones, the flaws don't detract from the enjoyment of the beautiful, beautiful music. I liked them the short period of time I listened. Unfortunately I have a very short head (ears to top) and I couldn't adjust the headband small enough so that they would fit. My short period of listening time involved holding the LCS-2s (or maybe they were even LCD-1s, can't remember) in place with my hands. That's fine for a short time but rather awkward for real listening. It's quite sad that a majority of people buying these headphones would believe it... Regardless I'm hearing that Kevin will be making a special limited edition vintage silver cable for these phones and I'm sure I will be sent a free sample in exchange for some shilling. This seems to be the normal arrangement on HF these days... If Kevin will make me a free sample silver, balance cable for my HD800, I'll shill over there day and night. I for one have never been able to like the HD800. It does some things ok but for that type of sound the HE60 is simply better in every way. Like Antonio, I haven't tried the HE60. For me, the HD800 gets out of the way of the music better than any headphone that I've listened to for more than 1 hour. I also like the fact that they are light and very comfortable. That's very important to me. First time I heard them, I agreed. After playing with them a little last weekend, my sense is that to my ears they, like Grados, do much better with an amp that has a non-zero Zout. High feedback just seems to lead to over damping, but run them with something that has a Zout around 10 Ohms and they warm up nicely and gain a little punch. The LCD's sound pretty nice, but I can't get past how heavy they are. To me, the HD800 sound best being driven by a reasonably powered tube amp. This is despite what Kevin said about it. I really love the sound of them out of my KG-fixed SP Extreme and it's even better out of my Nugget Audio Menace TCLite. Maybe the tubes tame the highs a little for them or maybe it's just my expectation bias. Don't know but I like the HD800 well enough to sell a really nice HP2. Again, the fit and comfort of the HD800 play a large part in me liking them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wink Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Silver cable group buy on the cards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsavitsk Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 To me, the HD800 sound best being driven by a reasonably powered tube amp. This is despite what Kevin said about it. I really love the sound of them out of my KG-fixed SP Extreme and it's even better out of my Nugget Audio Menace TCLite. Maybe the tubes tame the highs a little for them or maybe it's just my expectation bias. Don't know but I like the HD800 well enough to sell a really nice HP2. I am a strong believer that the difference between tubes and solid state has much less to do with actual differences between tubes and transistors, and much more to do with amplifier topology. The amps you mention will all have a non-0 output impedance, and I would wager that that is what you like about the combination. Unless there is an issue with the design, tubes do just fine at amplifying high frequencies well past human hearing. But, the interaction of the higher impedance amp with the impedance curve of the headphone driver, to me, leads to the warmer, punchier, sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shellylh Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 I like the LCD-2 a lot but also prefer the HD800. Reminds me that I should probably try to figure out how to recable to LCD-2 at some point. I really hate the cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzziguy Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 That's a much better reason than expectation bias. I'll take it. I don't know what the exact reason(s) are, but I definitely like my HD800 from my tube amps. You suggestion could definitely account for a large part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torpedo Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 I agree with dsavitsk, for the HD800 highish output impedance. OTOH for most orthodynamics I've tried including the LCD-2, the lowest the impedance, the better. The LCD-2 on the P1 sucked big time. Well, that's exaggerating, just sounded too flabby, recessed, flat and boring. Kinda chubby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complin Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) Like Antonio, I haven't tried the HE60. For me, the HD800 gets out of the way of the music better than any headphone that I've listened to for more than 1 hour. I also like the fact that they are light and very comfortable. That's very important to me. To me, the HD800 sound best being driven by a reasonably powered tube amp. This is despite what Kevin said about it. I really love the sound of them out of my KG-fixed SP Extreme and it's even better out of my Nugget Audio Menace TCLite. Maybe the tubes tame the highs a little for them or maybe it's just my expectation bias. Don't know but I like the HD800 well enough to sell a really nice HP2. I've tried the HD800 every which way, but they sound artificial, strained, mechanical and very bright. I must have tried several different amps both SS & Tube, aftermarket cables, different interconnects, balanced and single ended. I never listen to them now as they are just too painful and artificial, just aren't enjoyable, I wish I could make them usable given how much the cost but the HE60 is preferable for me every time. Edited December 14, 2011 by complin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aimless1 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 I agree with dsavitsk, for the HD800 highish output impedance. OTOH for most orthodynamics I've tried including the LCD-2, the lowest the impedance, the better. The LCD-2 on the P1 sucked big time. Well, that's exaggerating, just sounded too flabby, recessed, flat and boring. Kinda chubby. Have to agree about the LCD-2 and the P1. OK but meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n3rdling Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 I agree with dsavitsk, for the HD800 highish output impedance. OTOH for most orthodynamics I've tried including the LCD-2, the lowest the impedance, the better. Agree. I can only tolerate the HD800 on OTL tube amps...the HD800 sounds pretty awesome on the Menace. For the LCD2 I think the Dynahi and B22 are the best amps I've heard. I agree the LCD2 has a pretty similar frequency response to the O2 as I said back when I owned the LCD2. The O2mk1 sounds like it has a dip in the upper mids which makes everything sound good on it but can ruin the sound of trumpets for instance, while the LCD2 sounds like it has a dip in the entire treble which gives it a suffocating type of sound. I liked the LCD2 a lot for rock/pop/hiphop, but for classical it sounded quite artificial, especially with strings, by glossing over the finest details of instruments which give them a more 'true to life' representation. I find the same true of the LCD3. The O2 and electrostats in general certainly don't suffer from this same problem which is probably why I like them a lot for classical. Another major issue with the LCD2 is the lack of air in the recording. Sure the soundstage might be similar in size to the O2's, but there is no air around and between instruments which gives everything a 'music in an anechoic chamber' type of sound. Some people call this intimacy but I personally can't stand it. It's especially apparent on live recordings. I think Audeze will eventually find a way to solve some of these issues while maintaining some of the ortho strengths and when they do I'll be waiting in line to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) I'll actually be making the balanced hd800 cables first. The wire is already a twisted pair of #22. ( 7 strands of #30) 1957 was evidently a great year for teflon cable. I think think that everyone should be making their cables with a 4 pin xlr, then make 4 pin xlr to 1/4 adapters, and 4 pin xlr to dual 3 pin xlr adapters.That covers everything. The only reason why i was going to make new cables is that the ones that came with birgirs set were absolute garbage. The new audeze cables are great, and you can already buy a version with the 4 pin xlr. $80 retail. Less if you know where to go. Birgir has to write up a 4 page review of the cable first. Then i'll design the cable to sound like the review. Edited December 15, 2011 by kevin gilmore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recstar24 Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 I am itching to hear the hd800 again - sennheiser knows a thing or two about designing a high quality headphone that measures like a dream. I'm with Doug in that the 1st time heard them they seemed thin almost shrill, but the comfort is fantastic, the imaging was insane and it's a very speedy can. With the right amp aka not over damping the already pretty well damped headphone I think you might be able to get something really nice going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra_kai Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Birgir has to write up a 4 page review of the cable first. Then i'll design the cable to sound like the review. Bonus points if you can mention the words 'air,' 'separation,' 'not subtle,' 'blown away,' and 'smooth' at least 30 times in the review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swt61 Posted December 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 I am itching to hear the hd800 again - sennheiser knows a thing or two about designing a high quality headphone that measures like a dream. I'm with Doug in that the 1st time heard them they seemed thin almost shrill, but the comfort is fantastic, the imaging was insane and it's a very speedy can. With the right amp aka not over damping the already pretty well damped headphone I think you might be able to get something really nice going. I had pabbi1's pair of HD800s for a month or so, just after they first hit the market, and while I thought they were a technically accurate headphone, they just lacked soul to my ears. But now I hear that the Beta22/HD800 combo is a bland combination, so I'm interested in hearing them again with more favorable amplification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyll Hertsens Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 I am itching to hear the hd800 again - sennheiser knows a thing or two about designing a high quality headphone that measures like a dream. I'm with Doug in that the 1st time heard them they seemed thin almost shrill, but the comfort is fantastic, the imaging was insane and it's a very speedy can. With the right amp aka not over damping the already pretty well damped headphone I think you might be able to get something really nice going. I'm itching to try the 800 with the Analxis mod. It needs something, but it's also fucking amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzziguy Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 I'm itching to try the 800 with the Analxis mod. It needs something, but it's also fucking amazing. Is this something Steve does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvdunhill Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Team 5-pin XLR represent! Must not omit the ground! Then you can add a 5-pin to mini stereo converter to the mix! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Team 5-pin XLR represent! Must not omit the ground! Then you can add a 5-pin to mini stereo converter to the mix! Like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsavitsk Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Team 5-pin XLR represent! Must not omit the ground! Then you can add a 5-pin to mini stereo converter to the mix! 4-pin XLR has 4 pins + a ground connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvdunhill Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 4-pin XLR has 4 pins + a ground connection. I prefer virtual grounds myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadphoneAddict Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 After a couple of days with the LCD-2's I dare say I like them a lot. The sound reminds me of the SR-007Mk1 and their faults are few and far between. The bass is just a tad bit loose (probably the M3 at fault) and the top end is even darker than on the 007 but other than that these are very, very good. I said similar things about the sound, and with the right amp I'm enjoying them a lot. With the wrong amp not so good. Now the build quality is atrocious though. I was never a fan of the headband but it's just falling apart and I need to have the headphone hangers powder coated since the paint is flaking off. The old Stax units used a very similar system but they have held up for 40+ years with no issues. Agreed. I had to get them to send me new yokes because the paint flaked off of mine soon after I got them. I just got some Rean connectors so the horrid stock cable is gone and in its place a Sennheiser HD650 cable. It's much thinner than the stock unit but it seems to be letting the basses through ok... Yeah, the stock cable was way to thick/stiff and a little microphonic too. I've been using a Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable after hearing it at RMAF 2010, since the Warren Audio cable showed up with one channel dead and it wasn't worth having Rick to fix it. This one is working out much better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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